Standard Operating Procedure

en
00:00:19 It was a Charlie Foxtrot,
00:00:23 Without a doubt.
00:00:27 I never thought that I would
00:00:31 so depressed
00:00:35 and it was just unbelievable.
00:00:44 You got to consider
00:00:47 And if you come back,
00:00:50 You know, but if you're there and
00:00:54 you can do all the
00:00:59 I wouldn't recommend a
00:02:55 When Saddam's sons Uday
00:02:59 and Qusay were killed,
00:03:03 there was a great deal
00:03:08 This was a key operation.
00:03:10 We no longer have to
00:03:13 but we need to use this
00:03:22 After that big event,
00:03:33 He wanted to see the prison.
00:03:37 He wanted to...
00:03:40 included a trip to the torture
00:03:44 So we scheduled
00:03:47 The first stop was
00:03:53 We were preparing to
00:03:56 and he said,
00:04:03 "Let some soldiers come over here
00:04:07 "I don't need to see anything
00:04:10 And then he left.
00:04:15 Enter General Miller,
00:04:17 the guru of interrogation and
00:04:26 And he arrives the day
00:04:30 He was gonna "Gitmo-ize"
00:04:34 Contract interrogators,
00:04:36 military people that had
00:04:37 experience in Afghanistan
00:04:40 they all arrived
00:04:43 He gives an in-brief.
00:04:46 "You have to treat
00:04:48 "They have to know
00:04:52 Cell block 1A
00:04:56 of the military intelligence
00:04:59 Cell block 1B,
00:05:02 under the control of Colonel
00:05:05 They're going to use
00:05:08 for higher value
00:05:12 Abu Ghraib
00:05:15 what General Miller said
00:05:19 the interrogation
00:05:30 "October 1, 2003. First day at the prison.
00:05:35 "It's 9 p.m.,
00:05:39 "No white lights are
00:05:43 "No leaving the
00:05:46 "I hope we
00:05:48 "We drove in and two
00:05:51 "taking prisoners off.
00:05:54 "I'm scared of helicopters
00:05:58 "The tail was swaying
00:06:01 "Then a huge flame shot
00:06:18 "I have a bad feeling
00:06:22 "The prison is called Abu Ghraib.
00:06:30 "There's a chamber where
00:06:35 "I'm not sure about ghosts,
00:06:41 "I'm hoping to be home
00:06:46 I love you. Sabrina."
00:06:52 We're coming up the road,
00:06:56 It's like six
00:06:59 Then we seen this sign saying like,
00:07:03 We're like, "Yo, we right in
00:07:06 We get inside,
00:07:08 blown-up buildings
00:07:11 dogs running all over
00:07:16 The stench was unbearable.
00:07:24 It was just disgusting.
00:07:29 And then we had to move
00:07:39 You're walking around in your compound.
00:07:42 Boom.
00:07:45 Incoming. Everyone's yelling,
00:07:48 "Incoming, incoming!"
00:07:51 Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
00:07:54 'cause it happens over and over
00:07:58 After a while, the fear goes
00:08:01 It's like, "Damn it,
00:08:04 One pierced the roof of the
00:08:08 but it didn't explode.
00:08:09 Boom! Ting-ting-ting.
00:08:11 Land on the floor.
00:08:18 Well, they ain't say, "Holy crap."
00:08:29 When you walk from the
00:08:32 and you get to 1A/1B,
00:08:34 they already had intelligence
00:08:36 That's when I saw
00:08:38 I'm like, "Hey, Sarge,
00:08:42 You know.
00:08:43 "Hey, that's the MI.
00:08:45 "That's the MI thing.
00:08:47 "Why these guys have
00:08:50 He's like,
00:08:53 There's guys naked,
00:08:55 guys, you know, handcuffed
00:08:59 you know, in isolation
00:09:03 You open the door, turn the light on.
00:09:07 Click, turn the light off, close the door.
00:09:11 It was like,
00:09:13 "You know, just
00:09:15 And from then on, I was like,
00:09:20 I was working out
00:09:22 Some nights I'd get
00:09:24 Some nights I'd be
00:09:27 Depends on how many
00:09:29 Sometimes we'd
00:09:31 that evening and I'd be there
00:09:35 and then I had guard duty at 6:00
00:09:39 get a couple hours sleep
00:09:44 Usually I'd go over to the hard
00:09:49 You know, it'd just be
00:09:52 maybe up in the office watching
00:10:00 Some nights
00:10:03 and there would be different people
00:10:07 and got them up on
00:10:09 or running up and down
00:10:15 We thought it was unusual,
00:10:22 but when we first got there,
00:10:28 That's what we saw.
00:10:35 The first thing
00:10:38 Was this guy.
00:10:42 and he was handcuffed
00:10:46 And they were pretty much
00:10:50 That's the first time
00:11:05 I wrote a letter home to Kelly,
00:11:12 "October 20th, 2003.
00:11:16 "I can't get it
00:11:18 "I walked downstairs to find the
00:11:23 "naked with his underwear
00:11:29 "He looked like Jesus Christ.
00:11:33 "so I went and grabbed a
00:11:36 "One of the guys took my asp
00:11:41 "Okay. That's funny.
00:11:46 "That's a form
00:11:50 "I took more pictures now
00:11:54 "Not many people know
00:11:58 "The only reason I want to be
00:12:01 "to prove that the U.S.
00:12:05 "But I don't know if I could take it mentally.
00:12:16 "I thought I could
00:12:20 "I was wrong."
00:12:24 If I come up to you and I'm
00:12:27 you probably wouldn't believe me
00:12:31 So if I say, "Hey, this is going on.
00:12:35 you can't deny it.
00:12:44 Gus was the prisoner
00:12:48 We thought he was maybe
00:12:51 because he was always,
00:12:53 "Saddam's going to come back
00:12:56 And all this stuff.
00:12:59 And so we thought he was
00:13:01 And then we found out the history
00:13:06 And he had gotten drunk
00:13:10 He was just
00:13:13 like we'd find at one of our
00:13:16 Once he came over to the
00:13:19 And we had to pump him, you
00:13:25 or bags of IV fluid a day
00:13:29 Gus was being verbally threatening
00:13:35 Graner put
00:13:36 And then he crawled out
00:13:41 And then he handed
00:13:46 And that's when
00:13:49 And then the guy got up
00:13:51 They were trying to say
00:13:53 which never occurred.
00:13:55 I was there, and I
00:13:58 It may have been unorthodox,
00:14:01 and he didn't hurt anybody,
00:14:07 Graner had the camera
00:14:11 And he asked me and Ambuhl
00:14:15 When he opened
00:14:19 Gus was in there,
00:14:21 He didn't want to stand up,
00:14:24 so that's why he brought
00:14:27 So he put it around his neck.
00:14:35 And I guess he got about
00:14:46 Graner told me to hold onto the
00:14:50 I just grabbed it.
00:14:56 People said that
00:14:59 but I never did.
00:15:07 Graner took three
00:15:13 You can see Megan
00:15:28 He would've never had me standing
00:15:33 I'm a 95 to 100 pound
00:15:38 holding a strap that's attached
00:15:43 Maybe that's what
00:15:46 Maybe it was for documentation,
00:15:51 I don't know. I don't know
00:15:54 But he took it.
00:15:58 In all the years
00:15:59 I'd say over half of
00:16:02 because the criminal
00:16:07 Taking photographs of these things
00:16:14 They gave me 12 CDs
00:16:16 and said, "There's thousands
00:16:19 "We want you to find
00:16:22 possible prisoner abuse
00:16:23 "or people that were in
00:16:26 that the abuse was occurring.
00:16:28 "And we need to know exactly
00:16:34 The pictures spoke
00:16:35 but unless you know what day
00:16:38 you wouldn't know
00:16:41 I started lining pictures
00:16:45 Put these on a time line
00:16:49 when did the incident
00:16:55 How much time elapsed in
00:17:00 How much actual effort
00:17:02 did these people put into what
00:17:08 Who else was there in the room
00:17:16 How could all this go on
00:17:27 When you look at this whole case
00:17:31 you kind of lose focus.
00:17:33 These pictures actually depict
00:17:38 of possible abuse or possible
00:17:45 All you could do is present
00:17:49 You can't bring in emotion
00:17:55 When I was in the brig,
00:17:57 every single woman there was
00:18:02 Different reasons, yes,
00:18:07 And when you join the military,
00:18:15 it's a man's world.
00:18:18 You have to either equal a
00:18:25 If you want to be their
00:18:29 They're going to
00:18:31 You need to step up and tell them,
00:18:35 "I'm not gonna take that.
00:18:39 "You know, control me because
00:18:43 "It's not gonna happen."
00:18:46 I mean, hell, if you're in
00:18:49 Use it.
00:18:55 If I would have thought about
00:19:03 But I was blinded by
00:19:17 Graner, he's
00:19:21 If you didn't know him
00:19:25 you'd be drawn
00:19:30 And in a crowded room,
00:19:34 He would draw
00:19:37 If the attention is not on him,
00:19:41 That's what he does.
00:19:47 If you're not paying attention to him,
00:19:50 and this and that,
00:19:52 Whatever you wanna hear,
00:19:58 He knew. And I was, what,
00:20:01 He was 34.
00:20:02 He had 14 years more
00:20:06 So he knew what
00:20:10 And I was dumb enough to fall for it.
00:20:16 Everyone tried to tell me,
00:20:18 "He's too old for you.
00:20:21 But I didn't
00:20:25 because I believed him
00:20:32 Can't figure it out now.
00:21:18 The population was
00:21:19 but nobody really had a
00:21:23 a formerly known as
00:21:26 "suspected terrorist" or an
00:21:29 General Wojdakowski told me after
00:21:34 that this was going to
00:21:37 and at the end of it we might have
00:21:43 that we would be
00:21:46 And I said,
00:21:46 "Don't you think you should have
00:21:49 "You know, I mean, we don't
00:21:52 "for the 200 prisoners in
00:21:55 "And now you're going
00:21:59 "What's the release
00:22:02 He said, "You are not
00:22:05 Do you understand me?
00:22:06 "If any one of these
00:22:09 or ends up out on the street,
00:22:10 "I'm coming after you."
00:22:14 They would go out in
00:22:16 and sweep up every single, you know,
00:22:22 That's why you hear
00:22:25 sons and fathers
00:22:28 all getting locked up.
00:22:31 Imagine someone coming to your
00:22:36 They would come in, like, on
00:22:40 I mean, you come to the back door,
00:22:44 you know, bang, bang, bang, here
00:22:47 full of scared
00:22:52 Were like,
00:22:54 "Mister, Mister, what, am I in trouble?
00:22:58 You know, they were like taxicab
00:23:02 and they're at Abu Ghraib.
00:23:05 We had kids.
00:23:06 If we can't get the insurgent
00:23:10 "Akbar, I have your son.
00:23:13 "Turn yourself in and
00:23:17 I call that kidnapping.
00:23:20 It got filled up so fast
00:23:22 that we couldn't take
00:23:24 and they had to stay
00:23:25 You feel bad for
00:23:30 for no reason just 'cause
00:23:33 You can only make their stay a
00:23:37 You give them all
00:23:41 to make their time
00:23:43 But there's only so much you
00:23:52 "The lights
00:23:55 "so here we are
00:24:10 "I hear, 'Missus! Missus!'
00:24:15 "on a 16-year-old sitting
00:24:25 "Now these ants are Iraqi ants.
00:24:29 "So large they could carry the family
00:24:34 "All the ants in the prison
00:24:36 "and decided
00:24:39 "All I could do was spray Lysol.
00:24:45 "So here we were in the dark
00:24:50 "beating the ants
00:25:00 "So that was the start of my shift.
00:25:05 "They've been stripping
00:25:07 "and handcuffing
00:25:11 "I get to laugh at them
00:25:15 "I kind of feel bad
00:25:18 "even if they are accused
00:25:23 "We degrade them but we don't
00:25:30 "They sleep one hour, stay up
00:25:36 "This goes on for 72 hours
00:25:42 "Most have been so scared
00:25:46 It's sad.
00:25:53 "Pictures were taken,
00:25:57 "A sandbag was put over their heads
00:26:02 "Okay, that's bad,
00:26:08 "We were trying to get them to talk.
00:26:22 The big word that always
00:26:25 Everything that you saw,
00:26:30 A bunch of unprofessional schmucks
00:26:33 All thrown together, mixed
00:26:37 and what you get out of it is the shit
00:26:42 It's disgusting.
00:26:46 Because the whole time
00:26:48 and not doing the damn job,
00:26:54 Abu G. had been
00:26:56 killed two Americans
00:27:01 We went to do an
00:27:05 the cell leader of that group of
00:27:09 There was two female
00:27:11 one was an interrogator,
00:27:14 They took all of his clothes
00:27:18 which we weren't
00:27:30 When we got done with
00:27:32 I'm like,
00:27:32 "So, what's the scoop
00:27:35 "I mean, what's going on?"
00:27:38 The Arab position
00:27:40 they're a subservient
00:27:42 And to try
00:27:44 so they'll cooperate with
00:27:46 they interrogate him nude.
00:27:50 I went back and I asked
00:27:53 And he's like,
00:27:53 "Yeah, we're not really
00:27:55 "but we let the females
00:27:58 "you know, to get over
00:28:00 And I'm like,
00:28:01 "You just said we weren't
00:28:03 And he's like,
00:28:04 "Well, they're allowed to
00:28:08 I said,
00:28:11 And he's like,
00:28:13 "if I was you, I wouldn't be
00:28:22 It's not like they were
00:28:24 And that's what
00:28:26 is if you know you're doing
00:28:29 you're gonna hide it.
00:28:31 You're gonna do your
00:28:34 so people that know
00:28:37 As I walk in, here's a
00:28:42 and T shirt
00:28:45 and there's another guy off just
00:28:48 Each one had
00:28:50 Someone says,
00:28:53 And I'm like, "Okay."
00:28:56 They're not wearing rank. I don't
00:28:58 And they'll put their handcuffs above
00:29:01 you know,
00:29:03 Then they started handcuffing
00:29:07 The whole time they're yelling,
00:29:10 "You know you did it.
00:29:12 Then they start
00:29:14 what appeared to be
00:29:18 And, I'm just like. I thought
00:29:22 Come to find out,
00:29:24 these guys were accused of
00:29:27 No military intelligence
00:29:31 Cruz is yelling at him,
00:29:34 And the guy's like,
00:29:39 So after they're undressed, they
00:29:41 and they make
00:29:46 making him try to drag his
00:29:51 And I'm like,
00:29:58 I said, "Is this the way
00:30:00 He goes, "There's a lots of
00:30:08 So I said,
00:30:13 The next morning, the
00:30:16 I said, "Sir, military
00:30:19 "They are doing some pretty weird
00:30:22 He told me I had no
00:30:26 And he also told me, "Stay out of
00:30:35 Okay.
00:30:40 Okay, on the right, in
00:30:47 Right next to him,
00:30:50 To the left
00:30:54 and we're looking at the two
00:31:02 Can't see anything
00:31:24 It was never intended
00:31:25 It was never
00:31:28 The yelling was just
00:31:34 To show the spectators this
00:31:37 who breaks the rules.
00:31:50 Abu Ghraib was mortared almost
00:31:56 So my frustration
00:32:00 And when I heard about detainees
00:32:05 I just completely
00:32:09 Right before I left, I was so pissed
00:32:12 and I splashed some of them just
00:32:19 At one point, there
00:32:22 Everybody was throwing it
00:32:27 Here, I'm going to get it.
00:32:34 Once, I threw the ball, it hit
00:32:38 It's a Nerf ball,
00:32:47 Graner wanted me
00:32:49 He didn't tell me which
00:32:53 So I was just walking
00:32:58 "Just take one,"
00:33:01 MI came in and
00:33:04 They wanted to mess
00:33:07 They didn't like it that they
00:33:10 They were roughing them up, having
00:33:16 crawl, run into walls,
00:33:19 And then they
00:33:25 That's Graner with his hands on his
00:33:30 The two guys
00:33:33 are the MI guys.
00:33:35 They didn't wanna be in
00:33:38 But I was like, "Well, hey, you know,
00:33:43 "Just taking pictures."
00:33:49 I'm not gonna even
00:33:52 The whole time I was there I
00:33:56 Even though I was in a few of them
00:34:01 Because if I did I would have
00:34:05 First of all, there's a big sign,
00:34:09 And besides photographing
00:34:16 I received a 10 month
00:34:23 and a bad conduct
00:34:26 I was more humiliated by that
00:34:33 Eight months in jail for
00:34:35 and throwing a Nerf ball at somebody.
00:34:52 So I go back home
00:34:55 and I got one of the terps, interpreter,
00:35:00 And he's like, "Mr. Dugan, I'm so pissed.
00:35:04 "The general that you guys did, he
00:35:08 Well, that's great.
00:35:10 And he's like, "No, the interrogator
00:35:13 He's the vice president of Iraq,
00:35:16 Ten times
00:35:18 "I'll tell you where Izzat is.
00:35:21 And then he never
00:35:29 He was standing just in
00:35:34 I mean, he wasn't
00:35:38 He was like a grandfather.
00:35:46 They shaved his eyebrows for
00:35:52 And I told him not to worry,
00:35:57 I just felt really
00:36:03 Four days later,
00:36:04 we were gonna do him and the
00:36:08 and the dude
00:36:10 I mean, he's got no eyebrows,
00:36:12 I'm like,
00:36:14 And he's like, "That's the
00:36:17 And I'm like, "Bullshit." And I
00:36:19 "Damn it, I don't
00:36:21 "I wanna do this guy, I wanna get this stuff.
00:36:24 He's like, "This is the fricking general,
00:36:28 Never got him.
00:36:30 That general wouldn't say
00:36:32 He had a serious resolve that he
00:36:38 We got promoted from
00:36:44 We got implemented
00:36:47 The military intelligence
00:36:49 and say, "Hey, play music
00:36:52 "And if you got to, take the megaphone
00:36:55 "And turn it all the way
00:36:58 "you know, he can't sleep.
00:37:03 So I played this song
00:37:05 over and over
00:37:08 * Hip-hop hooray
00:37:10 That's what
00:37:12 After a while, the
00:37:14 * Hey, ho
00:37:16 This is not working.
00:37:18 So, I changed it and I
00:37:22 I put on Metallica.
00:37:24 Like, Enter the Sandman,
00:37:27 Then they were screaming
00:37:29 But after a while it didn't...
00:37:32 I guess they were so deaf
00:37:36 that they were able to,
00:37:40 I put in country music.
00:37:44 They're like, "Oh my God, Allah. Allah."
00:37:48 By the time the interrogators would
00:37:52 they were more than ready to go.
00:37:57 Sometimes MI
00:37:59 say, "Hey, we're gonna
00:38:01 "Get him out and you can start...
00:38:05 Scream at him, yell
00:38:07 Handcuff him in a awkward
00:38:10 Completely strip him
00:38:13 because that would embarrass the
00:38:18 We didn't kill them.
00:38:23 We didn't shoot them.
00:38:25 We didn't cut them and
00:38:30 We just did what we were told,
00:38:33 And we were told to do
00:38:35 We would make them stand
00:38:39 for hours at a time to stress
00:38:44 And we would have them
00:38:47 We'd pour
00:38:50 Point at him and laugh at him
00:38:54 Shower him with
00:38:56 Cut off all his clothes
00:39:00 Burn him
00:39:02 We'd just do what
00:39:06 If they want us to PT
00:39:10 If they want us to keep him up,
00:39:13 They say,
00:39:16 They say, "He's dirty.
00:39:20 Did any of this seem weird?
00:39:23 Not when you take into account
00:39:26 that that's helping to save lives
00:39:33 from right outside the wire
00:39:37 and they need to know who's
00:39:42 And these are
00:40:45 Gilligan was the one on
00:40:50 He was accused of
00:41:10 It was his box. He had to hold it,
00:41:15 It was cold so
00:41:20 I mean, he was never physically
00:41:24 He was just
00:41:33 He kept giving us different names,
00:41:47 When I got there
00:41:50 There was wires
00:41:52 and he was told he would be
00:41:58 There was no electricity
00:42:01 and to say, "Hey, if you fall
00:42:05 I mean, that would keep anybody awake.
00:42:13 You had to
00:42:18 It would have been meaner
00:42:21 and he really could
00:42:26 It was just words.
00:42:35 The wires were taken off
00:42:51 You'll see Sergeant Frederick in it.
00:42:57 And the one where I'm
00:43:01 I took that one.
00:43:19 He became one of our workers so
00:43:23 He was, like...
00:43:26 But I think it was
00:43:30 We'd give him an extra
00:43:33 and cigarettes,
00:43:35 He was about
00:43:40 Young guy.
00:43:50 Each of the pictures
00:43:52 but they were all off anywhere
00:43:58 And every time they got copied to
00:44:02 the times would change based
00:44:08 But the one time setting
00:44:10 is what we call metadata.
00:44:14 Metadata's a big, two-dollar word
00:44:21 Pictures have information
00:44:24 that tells you about when
00:44:29 what software created it,
00:44:34 and the date and time that
00:44:36 when it took the picture.
00:44:40 I was really elated to see that
00:44:48 The three main cameras belonged to Graner,
00:44:53 Graner's camera, the Sony FD Mavica,
00:44:59 There was a Sony Cybershot
00:45:06 And Deluxe Classic Cam,
00:45:18 I then realized that these people
00:45:21 of the exact same incident
00:45:25 Found a total of eight
00:45:29 where I could say, "This camera
00:45:32 "This camera thought
00:45:34 Once I was able to adjust it,
00:45:43 There was a guard log
00:45:46 where they recorded incidences
00:45:49 It actually confirmed the
00:45:56 Sabrina Harman's camera
00:45:59 I had to adjust her camera one year,
00:46:06 Frederick's and Graner's were
00:46:35 Nobody really got any intelligence there.
00:46:39 Most of our interrogators were
00:46:43 And if you think about it,
00:46:50 one, two, or three,
00:46:52 that you're gonna be
00:46:54 And you're 18 years old, just got
00:46:57 and went through
00:46:59 What the hell are you gonna
00:47:01 that's seen the world, done
00:47:06 You know, these kids
00:47:09 And the generals and the colonels
00:47:11 And it's like,
00:47:18 So I'm working this guy,
00:47:22 His brother was also captured with him.
00:47:26 and decided I'd see what was
00:47:31 There's six interrogation booths,
00:47:35 so you can view what's going
00:47:40 You got an Army female and
00:47:45 and not asking
00:47:48 There was a guy coming on to a girl
00:47:51 when they're supposed to be
00:47:57 And I said,
00:48:02 So this new detainee's
00:48:06 "Listen. I've been
00:48:09 "and I've actually been
00:48:11 "'cause I was standing
00:48:13 "watching you with
00:48:15 "I know you know
00:48:17 "And I know that you're
00:48:18 "on these Army kids."
00:48:20 I said, "I'm not gonna put
00:48:23 "It takes me three minutes and 47
00:48:27 "I'm gonna go outside, I'm
00:48:30 "and when I come back in
00:48:32 "you're gonna tell me every damn
00:48:35 I said, "Do I look like I'm
00:48:47 And I put my fist through the plastic table
00:48:55 Then after about
00:48:57 there was crying and yelling
00:48:59 And my terp was standing
00:49:01 and he's like,
00:49:03 "He don't know
00:49:05 "He'll tell you anything you want.
00:49:07 So I walked back in there real
00:49:11 and I said, "So,
00:49:22 My prisons were
00:49:26 so I was on the road
00:49:31 One time I arrived down at Abu Ghraib
00:49:35 "Oh, ma'am, we have an
00:49:39 "Would you like to
00:49:41 She took me over there and we stood
00:49:44 and it looked
00:49:47 I've wondered many times
00:49:49 if they didn't take me in there
00:49:55 "Yes, I saw an interrogation, and,
00:50:00 It's kind of funny how when, say,
00:50:07 would come look at the prison we'd...
00:50:14 And everybody would get
00:50:17 Everybody would get
00:50:19 And then as soon as
00:50:22 whoever was deprived of certain
00:50:27 That just seemed normal to
00:50:30 if they're not
00:50:37 CIA, Iraqi Survey Group,
00:50:41 DIA, FBI,
00:50:44 Task Force 121,
00:50:46 the other government agencies,
00:50:50 They had no rules.
00:50:52 We called them the ghosts
00:50:54 you don't know
00:50:56 Whoever their prisoners were,
00:51:01 "How's it going
00:51:02 "You know, here's this guy,
00:51:05 "He's not here,
00:51:08 "Just put him in a cell in there
00:51:11 "When the Red Cross comes
00:51:15 "When the Red Cross
00:51:17 "move them back to where they were.
00:51:21 I'm used to being out
00:51:24 "Hey, soldiers,
00:51:26 "Roger that, sergeant, airborne.
00:51:29 But now we're a part of this
00:51:33 You know, we're getting,
00:51:36 the guys who were on the deck
00:51:39 Like, whoa,
00:51:43 Wow, we got to guard
00:51:46 That's when things changed.
00:52:06 They'd take them
00:52:09 put a sheet up over the door,
00:52:11 stick them underneath
00:52:15 Or stick them in the
00:52:19 Then have at it.
00:52:31 A burlap sack
00:52:33 the wetness, it's sticking to your nose,
00:52:39 Makes them feel
00:52:42 Open a window while it's,
00:52:44 and watch them
00:52:51 For hours and hours and hours,
00:52:57 When they were done, eight, ten hours
00:53:02 They'd be halfway
00:53:07 Put them back in their cell, and then,
00:53:11 I know what it sounds like to hear,
00:53:16 I know the difference
00:53:18 because they're upset
00:53:20 and then someone screaming
00:53:22 You know, I know
00:53:30 It was early
00:53:32 like 4:30, around that time,
00:53:37 OGAs were, "Okay, we have
00:53:41 He was wearing
00:53:45 So he came in,
00:53:48 handcuffed and everything,
00:53:52 When he came in,
00:53:54 we didn't ask nobody who
00:53:57 That wasn't our business.
00:54:02 Two soldiers took him
00:54:06 where he was
00:54:12 He was there
00:54:13 I think he was there
00:54:21 All of a sudden, the OGA guy
00:54:24 "Can you help me here?
00:54:26 "Tie him a little higher 'cause
00:54:30 "He's, I guess..."
00:54:33 You know,
00:54:37 There were some
00:54:40 I think they were CIA.
00:54:42 But at the time, we didn't
00:54:47 They asked us to handcuff him to the
00:54:51 'cause he was playing possum. Now
00:54:55 I'm not holding him under
00:54:59 And his jumpsuit
00:55:02 and I commented
00:55:06 "Damn, this guy's pretty
00:55:08 'Cause I know I'd be
00:55:11 whatever with this riding up
00:55:16 Everybody just kind of laughed and
00:55:19 And I remember how, like,
00:55:23 and it was just
00:55:27 Again, you know, I was like,
00:55:32 "'cause, you know, his arms
00:55:35 "I'm surprised they haven't broken.
00:55:39 And then all of a sudden,
00:55:42 blood started pouring out
00:55:45 And so we realized something
00:55:49 That's when I went
00:55:53 And that's the first time
00:55:57 I was surprised 'cause his
00:56:00 He got huge black eyes
00:56:05 And I was like,
00:56:09 And then one of
00:56:12 So I kind of, like, did the thing
00:56:18 And nothing.
00:56:21 And I was, "Whoa, this guy's...
00:56:35 This whole time we were
00:56:38 you know, carrying him
00:56:41 and this entire time
00:56:49 I even got some blood on my
00:56:57 It kind of felt bad,
00:57:00 I know I'm not part
00:57:03 But it kind of make you feel like you
00:57:10 Colonel Jordan, he was
00:57:14 he came in, the medics came in,
00:57:19 Captain Brinson,
00:57:21 Sergeant Snider,
00:57:23 You had the entire chain
00:57:26 trying to figure out
00:57:29 We checked him and, you know,
00:57:34 And we kind of...
00:57:38 I don't know, I walked out of the room,
00:57:41 You know,
00:57:44 And then I asked
00:57:48 you know, I was like,
00:57:51 "in a situation
00:57:52 They were kind of,
00:57:55 but, you know, they were
00:58:00 whoever, to see how to, you know,
00:58:06 Well, what do we do with him?
00:58:08 We can't take him out in a body
00:58:14 So we had to keep him
00:58:17 And so we got
00:58:20 We got a bunch of ice.
00:58:25 Left him in the room
00:58:28 And then we shut
00:58:51 I remember saying
00:58:53 "You need to take the
00:58:56 "or someone will probably go in
00:58:59 We should have
00:59:01 and held on to them instead
00:59:04 But I guess he, you know,
00:59:07 in case they wanted to come take
00:59:12 It was pretty much supposed
00:59:15 Didn't want the word
00:59:24 "It was a crazy day yesterday.
00:59:27 The guy they brought in died.
00:59:29 "He was beat pretty bad.
00:59:34 "It was on the shift
00:59:38 "They stuck him in a room next
00:59:42 "and put him in a body bag
00:59:54 "He's already been
00:59:59 Captain Brinson had a meeting in
01:00:04 And he said that there was a
01:00:08 and he died
01:00:19 Sergeant Frederick got the key,
01:00:32 He started to melt,
01:00:38 He was there for at least 24
01:00:43 So he was there for
01:01:12 His knees were bruised,
01:01:17 He had restraint marks
01:01:23 It was kind of obvious,
01:01:25 that there was no way
01:01:49 You've gotten
01:01:53 I can understand.
01:01:56 But whenever I would get into a photo,
01:02:01 Any kind of photo,
01:02:04 'cause it's just something
01:02:09 Like when you get into a photo,
01:02:11 It's just, I guess,
01:02:22 He was a ghost detainee,
01:02:26 They didn't want him to be in
01:02:29 so we had to
01:02:30 So someone came up with the idea
01:02:36 dress him in the orange jumpsuit,
01:02:40 stick a IV in his dead arm and
01:02:48 From that point on, we never
01:02:52 The guy died, they put him in a body bag,
01:02:56 Go about your business, keep working.
01:03:04 They tried to charge me with
01:03:08 which I don't understand
01:03:09 and then maltreatment of
01:03:14 But he's dead. I don't know
01:03:16 And then altering evidence
01:03:18 for removing the bandage from
01:03:23 and then I placed it back.
01:03:25 When he died, they cleaned him all
01:03:29 So it's not really altering evidence.
01:03:32 In order to make
01:03:33 they were gonna have
01:03:36 which they didn't want to bring
01:03:40 'cause obviously they covered up a murder
01:03:44 So they dropped all the charges
01:04:07 Camp Ganci had a huge riot.
01:04:11 It was a female MP.
01:04:13 She got smashed in the face with, like,
01:04:16 They were gonna break out
01:04:20 get the MPs,
01:04:22 We brought them down the hallway,
01:04:25 That's where I come in.
01:04:27 I can't go
01:04:29 worrying about the
01:04:32 when I got people outside
01:04:35 This has got to stop.
01:04:37 They got to know.
01:04:41 Threw the guys on the floor,
01:04:43 did like a WWF, you know,
01:04:48 I wanted to do more,
01:04:51 I'm like, "You done hurt one of
01:04:54 So I stepped on the finger,
01:04:56 stepped on the guy's toe.
01:04:58 I wanted to hurt him,
01:05:01 the gentleman who hit the female
01:05:03 I wanted to hurt
01:05:06 I finished my day
01:05:08 and I had generator
01:05:11 Just sitting there at night,
01:05:16 Computer system
01:05:18 I was waiting for
01:05:21 And Sergeant Frederick
01:05:23 He had to print out
01:05:24 And we started talking.
01:05:27 that he had some individuals
01:05:30 He said, "Come on, you walk down
01:05:32 So I walked down with him. And they
01:05:36 And I said,
01:05:38 "you want me to grab one of the
01:05:42 He said,
01:05:44 And as I'm getting closer to Tier 1 Alpha,
01:05:48 And I'm like,
01:05:50 They said,
01:05:52 So I pushed him onto the
01:05:56 And that's when all the pictures
01:06:01 That's when Javal was stepping on
01:06:06 and Lynndie was also.
01:06:08 And that's when all
01:06:10 and Graner asked me
01:06:15 of him with the one detainee where
01:06:20 and he was acting like he
01:06:27 Never struck him.
01:06:29 As soon as I took the photograph,
01:06:36 And then they start the
01:06:42 and taking more
01:06:45 Graner walks over to one of the detainees,
01:06:49 for what reason,
01:06:52 I mean, hits
01:06:57 And, after he does that,
01:07:02 says, "This guy's
01:07:06 So Graner rips the leg open
01:07:12 Sabrina writes,
01:07:17 The guy hasn't moved for,
01:07:21 I kind of look
01:07:23 "Hey, Grane, something's
01:07:27 And I walked over and
01:07:30 up to where
01:07:32 The guy was unconscious.
01:07:34 I said, "Graner, you knocked
01:07:39 And he kind of shook his...
01:07:41 And after he punched him,
01:07:43 and he said,
01:07:47 And he didn't seem
01:07:52 And then I walked back over by Freddy.
01:07:56 And Freddy looks at me and he says,
01:08:01 Goes over, gets the guy
01:08:06 lifts the guy up, marks
01:08:10 punches the guy right
01:08:14 I'm like, "What?
01:08:19 "Who are you and what
01:08:26 Then they started the whole one
01:08:31 and setting the other
01:08:39 They had flex-cuffs,
01:08:46 And I told Graner,
01:08:48 "if we don't get them
01:08:51 I said, "Well, I got
01:08:53 "I can probably get
01:08:55 "but we're gonna have
01:08:58 It took a little while,
01:09:01 and then the blood started
01:09:04 And as far as I know,
01:09:08 That's when Graner and Freddy
01:09:13 Graner told me that he
01:09:19 that's why
01:09:21 And as I was leaving the tier that night,
01:09:25 And me being the person that I am,
01:09:31 I said, "See what?
01:09:37 I was always
01:09:41 "Why didn't you
01:09:45 "Didn't I feel that
01:09:46 I said, "Yes, but when
01:09:52 We were told,
01:09:56 I was asked to take it.
01:10:00 I try not to have
01:10:03 That's the way
01:10:07 But I guess being a nice
01:10:15 Some people ask me now why I'm
01:10:20 I say, "Put yourself
01:10:22 "Go through what I've went through
01:10:26 "See how nice you'll be."
01:10:31 Sivits just happened to
01:10:37 I mean, he never
01:10:47 He got a year in jail for nothing.
01:10:54 He shouldn't have
01:10:58 I don't think he would've even been
01:11:06 Who took the video?
01:11:07 I did.
01:11:12 The last thing I remember
01:11:15 and one guy kneeling.
01:11:16 And the one guy had his
01:11:21 And that's the last
01:11:25 Then we left to go
01:11:29 It was Kelly's birthday,
01:11:37 Me and Megan were still
01:11:41 And we walked out and they were
01:11:47 and taking pictures
01:11:51 About that time,
01:11:53 started jumping
01:11:56 And that's when I went
01:11:59 Graner said he wanted
01:12:05 Me, Freddy and Sabrina
01:12:08 three different cameras
01:12:20 They were lined up against the wall,
01:12:28 We didn't know
01:12:32 Nobody knew.
01:12:35 And then he told us that he
01:12:41 And we're like,
01:12:44 He's like, "To control them,
01:12:49 So we're like, "Okay."
01:13:54 Freddy is the one that
01:13:58 I don't know why,
01:14:00 He started the one
01:14:02 and then he wanted to see if the
01:14:05 I don't know.
01:14:07 But he had them all
01:14:18 At one point,
01:14:22 and the one guy kept doing
01:14:28 No joke.
01:14:32 The one guy that was
01:14:34 that was the one
01:14:37 He wanted me in it,
01:14:39 I was like,
01:14:40 Who wanted you in it?
01:14:43 Freddy.
01:14:44 And then Graner
01:14:46 Graner was like,
01:14:47 I was like,
01:14:49 And he's like,
01:14:51 and this and that.
01:15:02 Was this your birthday?
01:15:05 They brought them in after midnight.
01:15:14 Which birthday?
01:15:16 21st.
01:15:20 I had heard Graner saying,
01:15:24 or something,
01:15:27 I don't know why
01:15:29 'cause I really wouldn't
01:15:33 I mean, he used me.
01:15:35 And even though I was
01:15:37 I mean, now I'll know
01:15:42 Least he's moved
01:15:52 This was the infamous
01:15:59 The facial expressions
01:16:01 for what they were thinking
01:16:05 You look in their eyes, and it
01:16:10 This scene is what
01:16:13 Pretty much everybody
01:16:15 is in the photograph
01:16:20 Here you see Graner
01:16:24 Two cameras actually caught
01:16:26 from two totally
01:16:31 And again you see it where they
01:16:35 with the hoods
01:16:40 You actually see both of the
01:16:51 It's not so much that you're there
01:16:56 If you're in the pictures
01:16:58 you were gonna
01:17:01 Big trouble.
01:17:03 If you make our President apologize
01:17:10 "I haven't slept all night.
01:17:14 "Six prisoners
01:17:17 "That's eight we've lost
01:17:19 "Something bad is going
01:17:22 "I hope I'm wrong,
01:17:29 "We might be under investigation.
01:17:37 "Yes, they do beat the prisoners.
01:17:43 "That's why I take the pictures
01:17:51 "No one would ever believe
01:17:57 "If I want to keep taking
01:18:00 "I have to fake
01:18:05 "I hope I do not get into trouble
01:18:14 "I love you. Sabrina."
01:18:21 I guess reality hit that
01:18:25 which, of course,
01:18:27 but then it's your job.
01:18:32 You can't just walk away and say,
01:18:35 or "I'm not doing this."
01:18:37 'Cause either way,
01:19:18 We had a Iraqi prison guard
01:19:24 and a brand-new bayonet.
01:19:26 The prison guard
01:19:30 shimmied it up to a cell.
01:19:33 The detainee went underneath
01:19:42 hit Sarge Cathcart
01:19:58 Sergeant Elliot had to
01:20:01 to get the guy to stop shooting.
01:20:05 'cause he was in the corner praying, like,
01:20:36 All the Iraqi prison guards
01:20:39 they rounded them all up and fired some,
01:20:46 Not only did you have to risk your
01:20:51 you was risking your life
01:20:52 dealing with the unscreened
01:20:57 You know.
01:20:59 So strike one, two and three.
01:21:04 Not all of them were bad,
01:21:09 The guy who smuggled
01:21:11 I thought was a good guy.
01:21:14 He turned out
01:21:16 Smile in your face,
01:21:20 They rushed in right away
01:21:23 who had just tried
01:21:29 But it doesn't appear when you see
01:21:51 Your imagination can
01:22:00 The pictures only show you
01:22:04 You don't see forward
01:22:06 You don't see
01:22:33 "This is the first time
01:22:37 "Two dogs with two owners go
01:22:45 "The guy is scared out of his mind.
01:22:51 "The Iraqi starts screaming
01:22:54 "And one of the guys lets his dog
01:23:00 "The guy is hysterical.
01:23:04 "Blood was everywhere.
01:23:06 "It was teeth marks that
01:23:10 "One of our medics came, and he
01:23:14 "It was kind of fun,
01:23:22 "The dogs should've
01:23:48 One of the things an
01:23:49 it's the last paragraph
01:23:52 is you evaluate
01:23:53 and reliability
01:23:55 that was just given you.
01:23:56 That's the very last paragraph
01:23:59 So if I get information through
01:24:05 because, well, I would just
01:24:09 whatever the hell you
01:24:11 But if I give you some carrots
01:24:15 to cooperate with me,
01:24:18 usually you're going to get
01:24:22 General Sanchez routinely
01:24:27 to this finger pointing,
01:24:31 and saying,
01:24:34 "Find Saddam!
01:24:37 "Find Saddam!
01:24:42 If you poke your finger in
01:24:46 they'll do whatever they need to
01:24:51 It's a downward spiral.
01:24:53 "This isn't working.
01:24:58 "This worked in Bagram.
01:25:05 It doesn't stop the mortars,
01:25:10 and it doesn't
01:25:14 It wasn't any information they
01:25:17 or interview out
01:25:20 It was soldiers on the
01:25:26 You ready for this?
01:25:30 a little tiny farm right
01:25:32 Saddam knocked
01:25:35 and he said, "I'm Saddam Hussein.
01:25:40 "I am the leader of Iraq and all
01:25:44 "All the homes in Iraq
01:25:47 And he went to the kitchen and
01:25:53 and he ate the egg
01:25:57 And he came back about
01:25:59 and he's like,
01:26:06 And the dude's wife,
01:26:20 Saddam was captured
01:26:25 And then on Monday,
01:26:29 He asked if we wanted to volunteer
01:26:33 He'd just got off the phone
01:26:37 Rumsfeld and Sanchez had
01:26:40 on the high value detainees.
01:26:44 They said we had the opportunity
01:26:46 'cause of the stuff that
01:26:49 And at that time
01:27:09 You have to look at
01:27:14 It was important to separate
01:27:19 and those things that
01:27:22 And that's what the prosecution
01:27:31 If somebody was physically injured,
01:27:42 Putting somebody into sexually
01:27:46 you have a criminal act.
01:27:50 Making them abuse themselves sexually,
01:27:58 Standing by and watching somebody
01:28:01 and taking photographs
01:28:04 that's dereliction of duty,
01:28:14 The individual with the wires tied
01:28:19 I see that as somebody that's
01:28:24 I'm looking at it,
01:28:26 "They don't look like they're
01:28:29 Standard operating procedure.
01:28:41 Does this one actually constitute a crime
01:28:46 That's probably
01:28:56 The panties on the head
01:28:59 but it's no more than
01:29:03 They weren't being
01:29:07 They were going through discomfort to
01:29:17 I've been in the Army for 20 years.
01:29:23 I spent four months
01:29:27 People that haven't been
01:29:29 I can't expect them to see
01:30:03 I came back from a meeting,
01:30:05 I opened my classified e-mail.
01:30:08 "Ma'am, just wanted to let
01:30:13 "the CG on the progress of the
01:30:19 "This involves the allegations
01:30:24 And I sent an e-mail
01:30:26 "I don't know what to say.
01:30:31 I was preparing in my mind to
01:30:37 to tell the truth
01:30:40 To say, "This is what
01:30:43 "We're looking into it because
01:30:49 "We're Americans, and we
01:30:53 General Sanchez said,
01:30:55 "No, absolutely not. You're not
01:31:01 The fear of the truth
01:31:06 silenced people.
01:31:09 Everybody knew. Everybody
01:31:13 that stayed there, lived there,
01:31:18 They would come over and they
01:31:21 And he had all these discs
01:31:24 "Well, here you go, here you go,
01:31:27 Everybody had a copy of a picture.
01:31:34 When those photographs came out,
01:31:38 the day after
01:31:45 a battalion-wide
01:31:50 Any type of evidence
01:31:54 Burn it, throw it away,
01:31:56 and be done with it.
01:32:00 He just wiped out every
01:32:04 every last single person
01:32:06 that would've been
01:32:08 and say, "Look, this is
01:32:13 You know, after
01:32:16 who's gonna want
01:32:17 Who's gonna want to say,
01:32:20 "I know what happened"?
01:32:28 Find a way to make it go away
01:32:36 Sacrifice the little guys,
01:32:51 I'm a 28-year-old young
01:32:58 And I'm gonna get
01:33:07 "Well, sweetie, you married a criminal.
01:33:12 "and I'm under investigation
01:33:17 "So much for turning those
01:33:21 "I knew I'd be in trouble
01:33:26 "But how else would you let people
01:33:35 "You think I'd be scared,
01:33:39 "I knew I'd go down with them.
01:33:45 "What sucks is almost the entire
01:33:50 "have seen the pictures
01:34:26 My husband
01:34:31 I can't move on from this
01:34:35 So, that's pretty difficult.
01:34:56 This huge political monster
01:35:01 Ivan Frederick eight years
01:35:09 When I went through Desert Storm,
01:35:13 Our mission was to reclaim Kuwait.
01:35:18 This war in Iraq,
01:35:21 will probably get remembered as
01:35:26 we were not the saviors.
01:35:28 And these photographs will
01:35:34 War is a stressful
01:35:38 They were getting shelled on a
01:35:42 A young person with no
01:35:45 being thrown into something
01:35:51 We all say that
01:35:54 And I'm sure they all look back
01:35:59 and they played a part in something that
01:36:05 But at the time,
01:36:07 where the rules
01:36:15 Lynndie England,
01:36:18 It's obvious she is one
01:36:22 that doesn't have much
01:36:24 There had been
01:36:26 that she would have been
01:36:28 But she was in love.
01:36:31 Ambuhl. She...
01:36:36 Well, she knew when
01:36:39 and when it was time
01:36:42 Because she would be
01:36:44 and then noticeably
01:36:47 Um...
01:36:48 So she was probably
01:36:55 In the pictures that came
01:37:00 You didn't see Megan
01:37:02 'cause that was
01:37:07 Graner told me he just
01:37:14 'cause it was interfering with,
01:37:22 Maybe it was to
01:37:25 because now that I know
01:37:29 than what I thought at the time,
01:37:36 When did he find out
01:37:39 Well, when I found out
01:37:42 I come back and I told
01:37:45 And, of course, they wanted
01:37:48 So they knew,
01:37:51 At first he sounded excited
01:37:53 and then he was just like he
01:37:57 He didn't want anything
01:37:59 Once the story broke,
01:38:02 and it came out that I was pregnant,
01:38:06 He was accusing me of cheating
01:38:13 So if that's how he wants to play it,
01:38:18 He'll never see him.
01:38:23 It's his choice.
01:38:29 I was in the mess hall.
01:38:33 and I saw myself
01:38:38 and I'm like,
01:38:39 It's like, "Javal,
01:38:43 I'm like, "Whoa.
01:38:46 "Where the hell did they
01:38:49 They went to my high school.
01:38:50 They acquired a picture
01:38:54 when I was running track,
01:38:58 They cut my face out
01:39:02 But, in actuality,
01:39:06 So they made me look
01:39:09 They're showing
01:39:13 and then they show
01:39:15 I'm like, "Hold on.
01:39:17 "do you see a black guy anywhere
01:39:22 There would be no me,
01:39:26 no shock-the-world, no scandal,
01:39:29 It'd went away, it'd went
01:39:32 and that would have
01:39:41 Photographs
01:39:44 You can interpret
01:39:47 but what the photograph
01:39:56 You can put any kind
01:39:58 but you're seeing what happened
01:40:08 You could read emotion on their
01:40:14 but it's nothing that
01:40:21 All you can do is report
01:40:27 Somebody caught our administration
01:40:31 They're pissed off
01:40:33 You can kill people
01:40:34 You can shoot people. You can,
01:40:37 As long as it's not
01:40:39 But if it's on camera,
01:40:43 You know, torture didn't
01:40:45 That was humiliation.
01:40:49 Torture happened
01:40:52 Guys going through interrogation,
01:40:55 and they were killed,
01:40:57 That's where the torture happened.
01:41:14 I just thought it was a bunch of
01:41:17 I don't think so
01:41:21 I think you got a bunch
01:41:24 It's just cover-ups and people
01:41:26 and ramifications of their actions,
01:41:32 Except they're throwing a
01:41:37 I received a phone call
01:41:42 from a Pentagon reporter who said,
01:41:50 So I said, "I haven't
01:41:54 I didn't hear from General Helmly.
01:41:57 He didn't summon me to Washington D.C.
01:42:02 so he could relieve me.
01:42:06 This is cowardice
01:42:10 You're afraid to look
01:42:16 I got a letter 10 days
01:42:21 relieving me from command
01:42:29 My name was a good name in the
01:42:35 My uncle died in Vietnam 13
01:42:44 My dad has two bronze stars
01:42:49 My grandfather's got a
01:42:55 And then I come along
01:43:02 That just put that
01:43:10 You're taught from
01:43:13 you have to follow
01:43:16 And if you don't you're
01:43:19 And if you do,
01:43:22 You know, it's easy for retired
01:43:27 or whatever to
01:43:29 "Well, these people should
01:43:31 "and they should've stood up to
01:43:34 "And they should-a stood up to
01:43:36 "where, you know,
01:43:39 And it's just kind of
01:43:45 That that would happen.
01:43:49 You were getting shelled
01:43:53 Detainees, you know,
01:43:57 weapons, starting riots.
01:44:01 You know, this guy blew up,
01:44:04 He needs to get
01:44:06 I know what I can do
01:44:08 And I think I know
01:44:10 I think I know what I can't do,
01:44:14 and I see, you know,
01:44:17 You know, after a while
01:44:19 "It's free reign,
01:44:22 I was not the same person there
01:44:26 or that I was
01:44:31 I don't know what I
01:44:36 I could've said,
01:44:38 and just gone to jail for
01:44:42 But, I don't know.
01:44:48 I'm sure everybody can do
01:44:51 I just don't know what I
01:44:53 put in the same
01:44:57 If I could back all the way up,
01:45:00 That's what I would
01:45:05 It's just not worth it.
01:45:08 You go through all that
01:45:10 where you were
01:45:13 Trying to get in school,
01:45:19 It just wasn't worth it.
01:45:24 I just want to
01:45:28 You know, get a job,
01:45:34 I don't think
01:45:40 Can't change anything, so...
01:45:45 And if I did, then
01:45:50 I mean, I wouldn't trade him
01:45:54 I wouldn't want to go
01:46:00 It's how the world turns,
01:46:05 People backstabbing
01:46:08 Unfairness.
01:46:13 You live it.
01:51:15 Subtitles by LeapinLar