|
Dear Zachary A Letter to a Son About His Father
|
| 00:00:36 |
- Charismatic. |
| 00:00:38 |
I'd have to point out |
| 00:00:39 |
But he was a giant of a man. |
| 00:00:40 |
Really a good |
| 00:00:42 |
He was completely selfless. |
| 00:00:43 |
- Animated. |
| 00:00:44 |
- Jubilant. |
| 00:00:46 |
- Devilish. |
| 00:00:48 |
Can I say things |
| 00:00:49 |
that are not completely |
| 00:00:51 |
He had the capacity |
| 00:00:54 |
And he'd be proud of that. |
| 00:00:56 |
He wasn't a saint. |
| 00:00:57 |
He was just so intelligent, |
| 00:00:59 |
and, um, I'm gonna cry. |
| 00:01:05 |
I'm sorry. |
| 00:01:21 |
Why are you sad? |
| 00:01:24 |
Oh, I'll tell you |
| 00:01:27 |
Do you know who that is? |
| 00:01:28 |
Andrew. |
| 00:01:30 |
Do you know who Andrew is? |
| 00:01:32 |
I don't know. |
| 00:01:36 |
Why did Andrew get killed? |
| 00:01:41 |
Because somebody hurt him, |
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I'm an only child, |
| 00:01:44 |
is of any importance whatsoever, |
| 00:01:46 |
but, trust me, there's a theme. |
| 00:01:50 |
Where were you |
| 00:01:52 |
Melanie, |
| 00:01:55 |
calls back and says, |
| 00:01:56 |
"Kate, there's a policeman from |
| 00:01:58 |
Do you want to talk to him?" |
| 00:01:59 |
And I said, "Oh, yes, |
| 00:02:01 |
"Are you Kathleen Bagby?" |
| 00:02:03 |
"I've got a message here |
| 00:02:05 |
You're to call this number. |
| 00:02:07 |
It's the coroner's office. |
| 00:02:10 |
I said, "Is my son dead?" |
| 00:02:13 |
And he said, |
| 00:02:15 |
but you've got terrible news." |
| 00:02:17 |
I dialed this number |
| 00:02:19 |
And it was a man, an irate man. |
| 00:02:20 |
The coroner's office |
| 00:02:22 |
There was nothing |
| 00:02:24 |
"You have to call back |
| 00:02:25 |
I called back |
| 00:02:27 |
so he gave me another number, |
| 00:02:28 |
and then I got through |
| 00:02:31 |
"Your son is dead |
| 00:02:33 |
Have you got any idea |
| 00:02:37 |
I said, "My son is dead? |
| 00:02:41 |
He said yes. |
| 00:02:43 |
And then I called David. |
| 00:02:46 |
And I said to him, |
| 00:02:51 |
And he said, "No!" |
| 00:02:54 |
And I heard him throw the phone. |
| 00:02:56 |
I called Sgt. Krulac back, |
| 00:02:59 |
and he said, |
| 00:03:01 |
Through that flight, |
| 00:03:02 |
we thought |
| 00:03:05 |
bring him back to California, |
| 00:03:07 |
get everything organized, |
| 00:03:08 |
and then kill ourselves, |
| 00:03:12 |
That was the first plan. |
| 00:03:15 |
Obviously, we didn't do that. |
| 00:03:17 |
And then she gave me |
| 00:03:18 |
and we started calling. |
| 00:03:19 |
I came home, and there was |
| 00:03:21 |
- Kate called me. |
| 00:03:23 |
I was just coming |
| 00:03:24 |
- I was doing something... |
| 00:03:26 |
How many people got |
| 00:03:28 |
Everybody always says, |
| 00:03:30 |
"What would be the difference |
| 00:03:43 |
I came home |
| 00:03:45 |
to find a message |
| 00:03:47 |
Hi. It's Heather. |
| 00:03:49 |
At 3:41 p.m., |
| 00:03:51 |
She told me to sit down. |
| 00:03:57 |
In the original news, |
| 00:03:59 |
they said, |
| 00:04:04 |
was found in hospital scrubs." |
| 00:04:06 |
None of those words |
| 00:04:09 |
and they could put them on paper |
| 00:04:12 |
Nobody said, "This person, |
| 00:04:15 |
this wonderful person, |
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We met in first grade |
| 00:04:21 |
at St. Andrew's School |
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and I soon came to think of him |
| 00:04:26 |
It was here, |
| 00:04:28 |
scattered across the suburbs |
| 00:04:31 |
that we all grew up. |
| 00:04:32 |
There was Chris. |
| 00:04:33 |
Do I remember how I met Andrew? |
| 00:04:36 |
And Matt. |
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I can say without shame |
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Michelle. |
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He was the first friend I made |
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Jon. |
| 00:04:44 |
We met the first day of class |
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because of our names, |
| 00:04:47 |
Olivier. |
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We talked for about 20, |
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and I realized, |
| 00:04:51 |
Heather. |
| 00:04:52 |
Oh, I'm sure you got to hear |
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Between the two of us, |
| 00:04:54 |
we might actually be able to put |
| 00:04:58 |
And there was me. |
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My name's Kurt, |
| 00:05:01 |
I'm Kurt Kuenne, |
| 00:05:03 |
He appeared in every movie |
| 00:05:05 |
We made a movie! |
| 00:05:06 |
He loved playing bad guys... |
| 00:05:09 |
Shut up! |
| 00:05:10 |
Jeff, get the cocaine. |
| 00:05:11 |
A's, huh? |
| 00:05:13 |
...and having |
| 00:05:16 |
in front of his parents. |
| 00:05:17 |
I will fuck you up! |
| 00:05:21 |
Christ, start the fucking car |
| 00:05:22 |
Fuck you! |
| 00:05:25 |
I did not say the F-word. |
| 00:05:27 |
Which was probably |
| 00:05:28 |
for a kid who made Eagle Scout |
| 00:05:31 |
Mrs. Bagby, having watched it |
| 00:05:33 |
where Andrew was running around |
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kind of went... |
| 00:05:36 |
I can't really remember being... |
| 00:05:38 |
"Oh, that's not my son!" |
| 00:05:39 |
Perhaps you have |
| 00:05:41 |
that I got all upset about it. |
| 00:05:43 |
"Not my son!" |
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And, eventually, |
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Son of a bitch, you little shit! |
| 00:05:48 |
You're a pain in the ass. |
| 00:05:49 |
- You little bastard! |
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to go yelling about your penis |
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It wasn't always fun and games. |
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- You son of a bitch! |
| 00:05:56 |
Did I actually hit you? |
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- I didn't hurt your hand, did I? |
| 00:05:59 |
And if you knee me in the balls |
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And I know |
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Could you do that one more time? |
| 00:06:04 |
- One more time. |
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One more time. |
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I want to see that one more |
| 00:06:08 |
The famous "one more time" line. |
| 00:06:10 |
If I hear him say |
| 00:06:12 |
I'm gonna wring his neck! |
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Jesus Christ, Kurt. |
| 00:06:16 |
No, no. |
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But despite it all, |
| 00:06:20 |
Kurt, another winner! |
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My God, |
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Give our genius a heart attack? |
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None of that. |
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He even invested |
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while he was working to save |
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Everything was perfect. |
| 00:06:33 |
I don't know what happened. |
| 00:06:35 |
We got bigger, and we got laid! |
| 00:06:38 |
At his memorial service, |
| 00:06:39 |
I talked with his med-school |
| 00:06:41 |
One of the major things |
| 00:06:43 |
or that we had in common, |
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I had no idea he took pictures, |
| 00:06:50 |
and I'd known him for 22 years. |
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What else didn't I know? |
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I was never going to get |
| 00:06:56 |
and see what he was like |
| 00:06:59 |
I would never be going |
| 00:07:00 |
where I would finally meet his |
| 00:07:03 |
He would never be telling me |
| 00:07:04 |
anything I didn't already know |
| 00:07:07 |
So I decided to make this movie, |
| 00:07:10 |
to interview everyone |
| 00:07:12 |
to learn everything |
| 00:07:14 |
and to make one last movie |
| 00:07:17 |
I had no idea |
| 00:07:19 |
or how I would even know |
| 00:07:21 |
But the longer I waited, |
| 00:07:25 |
So I started at home |
| 00:07:26 |
and, as soon as I could, |
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Okay, Andrew, ready? |
| 00:07:29 |
- And said... |
| 00:07:34 |
How would I describe Andrew to |
| 00:07:37 |
The man never wore pants. |
| 00:07:40 |
That's right. |
| 00:07:46 |
Well, |
| 00:07:48 |
Quite frankly, he was |
| 00:07:50 |
Well, he had a good teacher. |
| 00:07:56 |
When we first met him, he had |
| 00:07:59 |
Oh, yeah, he'd always bite |
| 00:08:01 |
They looked like they'd been |
| 00:08:03 |
Too late. |
| 00:08:13 |
He was probably the most |
| 00:08:16 |
about doing |
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His mom worked in the business, |
| 00:08:19 |
We would sit and discuss |
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He didn't get an offer |
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at the end of the first year. |
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I remember |
| 00:08:46 |
I think he felt like |
| 00:08:48 |
like things were |
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and he wasn't really... |
| 00:08:52 |
he wasn't living |
| 00:09:00 |
"Well, what are you gonna do?" |
| 00:09:02 |
"Okay, I'll get a job, |
| 00:09:05 |
Okay. |
| 00:09:06 |
That's problem, solution. |
| 00:09:14 |
And then, of course, Heather |
| 00:09:16 |
she had picked up from Memorial |
| 00:09:20 |
I had to go look up St. John's |
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when he got accepted there. |
| 00:09:23 |
I knew, |
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He's now engaged |
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and he's gonna go to med school. |
| 00:09:55 |
Graduation, he was in shorts. |
| 00:09:56 |
Hold on a second. |
| 00:09:58 |
But before we go any further, |
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you've got to know |
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The whole truth. |
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So here it is. |
| 00:10:08 |
A couple of policemen met us |
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Took us over to the hospital. |
| 00:10:14 |
Bill and Clark picked us up |
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and took us over to Bacha's |
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And then he took us |
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Gurney at the other end... |
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with a white sheet over a body. |
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And... |
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...went over to him and when |
| 00:10:40 |
...I said, "It's really him." |
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I kissed him and held him, |
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and Kate kissed him and held him |
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Tears are dropping on him, |
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and Kate went to wipe |
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and a plug came out where he'd |
| 00:11:04 |
Oh, God. |
| 00:11:15 |
She pushed it back in |
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After that, I lost it. |
| 00:11:19 |
I was so fucking mad, |
| 00:11:22 |
God damn it, I hated. |
| 00:11:25 |
Didn't even know who I hated. |
| 00:11:28 |
Just knew that somebody |
| 00:11:31 |
Whoever that is is a monster. |
| 00:11:33 |
Well, who hurt him? |
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A very bad person. |
| 00:11:38 |
Which bad person? |
| 00:11:43 |
- A lady? |
| 00:11:46 |
What's her name? |
| 00:11:48 |
Shirley. |
| 00:11:49 |
Shirley? |
| 00:11:52 |
Why'd she kill him? |
| 00:12:00 |
I couldn't figure out who |
| 00:12:04 |
since Andrew talked a lot |
| 00:12:07 |
but never really |
| 00:12:08 |
Collette, |
| 00:12:10 |
Makes me sick to my stomach now, |
| 00:12:12 |
but I was so excited |
| 00:12:15 |
Come on, Shirley. |
| 00:12:18 |
I knew he'd been struggling |
| 00:12:19 |
with me moving on |
| 00:12:22 |
- Or maybe you will. |
| 00:12:24 |
I was excited at the thought |
| 00:12:27 |
that he, you know, |
| 00:12:33 |
But it didn't turn out that way. |
| 00:12:42 |
- Did you know her? |
| 00:12:47 |
Do you remember |
| 00:12:49 |
Mm-hmm. |
| 00:12:50 |
She just kind of appeared, |
| 00:12:51 |
and then she was there |
| 00:12:54 |
And just didn't seem suited |
| 00:13:02 |
He did say that there was |
| 00:13:05 |
And then the second time |
| 00:13:07 |
he actually fessed |
| 00:13:09 |
and I was like, "Holy shit!" |
| 00:13:12 |
Shirley's got three kids! |
| 00:13:19 |
Me, I always had to give him |
| 00:13:20 |
so I'd tease him |
| 00:13:22 |
And she seemed so incongruous |
| 00:13:25 |
with who |
| 00:13:27 |
A person like that isn't just, |
| 00:13:29 |
and then, one day, |
| 00:13:31 |
I mean, |
| 00:13:33 |
She'd just be really |
| 00:13:35 |
Poor taste, |
| 00:13:38 |
She was always making |
| 00:13:41 |
But never threatening. |
| 00:13:42 |
We never thought of her |
| 00:13:45 |
but, just, |
| 00:13:47 |
Something wasn't right. |
| 00:13:48 |
She started calling me |
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She talked forever. |
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Crude things about |
| 00:13:55 |
But I thought it was kind of odd |
| 00:13:56 |
that she was not practicing. |
| 00:13:58 |
She had finished residency |
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and yet she was having trouble |
| 00:14:04 |
Nobody said anything |
| 00:14:07 |
And if he wasn't putting the |
| 00:14:11 |
it just makes me think |
| 00:14:13 |
He was likely 4,000 miles away |
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from where he wanted to be |
| 00:14:18 |
He had had a very difficult, |
| 00:14:20 |
kind of heartbreaking type |
| 00:14:23 |
Whatever happened |
| 00:14:25 |
really kind of devastated him |
| 00:14:27 |
and just left him vulnerable |
| 00:14:31 |
"Andrew! |
| 00:14:32 |
You know you can do |
| 00:14:34 |
He said, |
| 00:14:36 |
He'd poke fun at himself |
| 00:14:38 |
He'd say he was a short, |
| 00:14:45 |
You don't need |
| 00:14:46 |
because you can't |
| 00:14:48 |
It was a comfort. |
| 00:14:49 |
And, in Newfoundland, |
| 00:14:51 |
and he enjoyed it. |
| 00:14:57 |
Oh, it's just |
| 00:14:59 |
After graduation, |
| 00:15:02 |
to do a surgery residency |
| 00:15:04 |
and he was miserable. |
| 00:15:05 |
He hated it. |
| 00:15:07 |
Shirley also decided to move |
| 00:15:14 |
We were not very aware |
| 00:15:17 |
what a problem |
| 00:15:25 |
Was a real hard year for him. |
| 00:15:27 |
There was really no time |
| 00:15:29 |
And the fact |
| 00:15:31 |
that was making a lot of effort |
| 00:15:32 |
to maintain a relationship |
| 00:15:35 |
and represented something else |
| 00:15:37 |
that it sounded like |
| 00:15:39 |
was hard for him to pass up. |
| 00:15:42 |
He pretty quickly realized |
| 00:15:44 |
and switched |
| 00:15:46 |
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, |
| 00:15:47 |
in July of 2001. |
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And he loved it. |
| 00:15:50 |
He said, "When you finally find |
| 00:15:52 |
that you know is your niche, |
| 00:15:55 |
it's worth everything |
| 00:15:56 |
And he now wanted her |
| 00:15:58 |
He did not invite her |
| 00:16:00 |
Yeah, and she thought |
| 00:16:01 |
She just already had it |
| 00:16:02 |
The morning of the wedding, |
| 00:16:04 |
Andrew's cellphone |
| 00:16:06 |
And he'd answer it, |
| 00:16:08 |
A minute or two later, it'd ring |
| 00:16:10 |
Andrew got more and more upset |
| 00:16:12 |
"What is your fucking problem?" |
| 00:16:15 |
She left 30-some-odd messages |
| 00:16:20 |
His phone in his house rang, |
| 00:16:24 |
Then his cellphone rang |
| 00:16:25 |
He's like, "Oh, it's her. |
| 00:16:29 |
Apparently, |
| 00:16:31 |
to accompany him to Karl and |
| 00:16:35 |
before July. |
| 00:16:36 |
He had broken up with her |
| 00:16:38 |
It sounds so easy, |
| 00:16:41 |
when you're a genuine person |
| 00:16:43 |
He didn't know |
| 00:16:44 |
because he wasn't |
| 00:16:46 |
Shirley had been really, |
| 00:16:48 |
Just acting possessive of him. |
| 00:16:51 |
I said, "Andrew, hey, |
| 00:16:53 |
and she said, "There you go, |
| 00:16:54 |
My jaw dropped. It had to have. |
| 00:16:58 |
On the afternoon |
| 00:17:01 |
he broke up with Shirley |
| 00:17:02 |
over lunch at the airport |
| 00:17:05 |
Then he put her on a plane |
| 00:17:06 |
back to her place |
| 00:17:08 |
1,000 miles away. |
| 00:17:17 |
I remember the morning |
| 00:17:19 |
He said, "You'll never guess |
| 00:17:21 |
who showed up on my doorstep |
| 00:17:24 |
And I said, "Who?" |
| 00:17:27 |
And I told him, I said, |
| 00:17:30 |
when I break up with somebody |
| 00:17:33 |
and send them 1,300 miles away, |
| 00:17:35 |
they knock on my front door, |
| 00:17:37 |
I'm going out the back door |
| 00:17:40 |
He said, "What do you mean?" |
| 00:17:42 |
I said, "Andrew." |
| 00:17:46 |
I said, "Be serious. |
| 00:17:48 |
Nobody drives 16 hours |
| 00:17:51 |
after you've just broken up |
| 00:17:53 |
I said, |
| 00:17:55 |
He said, "What can happen?" |
| 00:17:57 |
And he said, "I'm gonna |
| 00:17:59 |
and we're gonna have to do |
| 00:18:00 |
I said, "Bring some beer. |
| 00:18:03 |
When do you think |
| 00:18:05 |
He said, "Well, it's 4:30 now. |
| 00:18:07 |
Meeting her at 6:00. |
| 00:18:09 |
7:30, I'll be at your house." |
| 00:18:11 |
Things people should know |
| 00:18:14 |
He was never late. |
| 00:18:16 |
And you know what? |
| 00:18:17 |
When Andrew didn't show up |
| 00:18:20 |
I knew something was very wrong. |
| 00:18:23 |
And when I went back down |
| 00:18:25 |
and didn't see his car there... |
| 00:18:28 |
I knew something was wrong. |
| 00:18:33 |
Well, let me tell you |
| 00:18:35 |
Andrew didn't show up |
| 00:18:37 |
Morning report ended |
| 00:18:39 |
I went down to my office. |
| 00:18:41 |
Hi. |
| 00:18:42 |
Please leave a message |
| 00:18:50 |
Called his cellphone. |
| 00:18:52 |
No answer on either one. |
| 00:18:54 |
As I recall, |
| 00:18:56 |
to 9:00 in the morning, |
| 00:18:57 |
and Rhonda and I |
| 00:19:00 |
are starting to get |
| 00:19:01 |
I remember Bill coming in |
| 00:19:02 |
and standing |
| 00:19:04 |
and telling us. |
| 00:19:05 |
One of the E.R. docs |
| 00:19:06 |
"They found a body in scrubs |
| 00:19:11 |
Dead silence fell over. |
| 00:19:12 |
A heaviness |
| 00:19:14 |
And eventually almost everyone |
| 00:19:17 |
just waiting for more news. |
| 00:19:18 |
Rhonda got the call, |
| 00:19:20 |
"They need you in Mr. Clark's |
| 00:19:23 |
And I remember |
| 00:19:24 |
going up at damn near a sprint. |
| 00:19:26 |
I opened the door, |
| 00:19:28 |
three Pennsylvania State Police |
| 00:19:31 |
sitting in the room. |
| 00:19:32 |
And I said, "You're here |
| 00:19:34 |
They asked for us all to gather |
| 00:19:37 |
- And they closed the door. |
| 00:19:39 |
He just walked right up |
| 00:19:41 |
"Andrew Bagby is dead." |
| 00:19:45 |
I said, "Well, hell, |
| 00:19:47 |
They're like, |
| 00:19:54 |
I said, "This woman was in town. |
| 00:20:03 |
I said, "Find her, and I think |
| 00:20:16 |
A summary of the evidence |
| 00:20:20 |
He was found on the morning |
| 00:20:22 |
laying behind his car |
| 00:20:24 |
at Keystone State Park |
| 00:20:27 |
A man walking |
| 00:20:28 |
at 6: 10 p.m. the previous |
| 00:20:31 |
had seen his black Toyota |
| 00:20:34 |
This was 10 minutes |
| 00:20:35 |
after he told Clark |
| 00:20:37 |
"Meeting her at 6:00." |
| 00:20:39 |
Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV. |
| 00:20:41 |
He was shot five times. |
| 00:20:43 |
In the face, the chest, |
| 00:20:44 |
twice in the buttocks, |
| 00:20:46 |
He also received a blunt trauma |
| 00:20:49 |
That didn't sound random. |
| 00:20:50 |
That sounded like rage |
| 00:20:52 |
The ammunition used |
| 00:20:55 |
There were six spent casings |
| 00:20:56 |
on the ground beside him. |
| 00:20:58 |
Shirley owned a Phoenix Arms |
| 00:21:16 |
She had three lessons |
| 00:21:18 |
who said that at her last lesson |
| 00:21:20 |
she was using |
| 00:21:22 |
and her gun malfunctioned |
| 00:21:24 |
and would sometimes eject |
| 00:21:33 |
Then she said, |
| 00:21:41 |
Then she said, |
| 00:21:44 |
She claimed |
| 00:21:45 |
on Monday, November 5th. |
| 00:21:57 |
The cellphone records show |
| 00:22:00 |
here, here, here, and here. |
| 00:22:01 |
While she claims |
| 00:22:03 |
she's making cellphone calls |
| 00:22:05 |
at 7:08 and 7: 10 p.m. |
| 00:22:08 |
Then another |
| 00:22:09 |
at 10: 19 p.m. that night. |
| 00:22:11 |
Then another |
| 00:22:13 |
at 8:07 a.m. the next |
| 00:22:15 |
the day he was killed. |
| 00:22:16 |
She logged on to eBay |
| 00:22:18 |
from his computer at his house. |
| 00:22:19 |
And back again. |
| 00:22:20 |
At 11:26 p.m. that night, |
| 00:22:22 |
she makes another call |
| 00:22:24 |
clearly on her way home |
| 00:22:25 |
Then another call |
| 00:22:27 |
at 9:48 a.m. the next morning, |
| 00:22:30 |
Then another once she got home |
| 00:22:32 |
And this one's to him. |
| 00:22:42 |
But when she realized |
| 00:22:43 |
that she couldn't possibly |
| 00:22:44 |
when she'd been caught |
| 00:22:46 |
from Pennsylvania and back, |
| 00:22:47 |
she changed her story again. |
| 00:22:48 |
Then she said, "I gave the gun |
| 00:22:52 |
and I saw him put it |
| 00:23:04 |
And that clearly shows if she |
| 00:23:09 |
She is a manipulative, |
| 00:23:14 |
In order to prove |
| 00:23:16 |
when she made these phone calls, |
| 00:23:17 |
each individual cell tower |
| 00:23:20 |
had to be manually checked, |
| 00:23:21 |
which was a process |
| 00:23:24 |
While the police were uncovering |
| 00:23:26 |
Shirley left the United States |
| 00:23:27 |
for her home |
| 00:23:32 |
We were absolutely helpless |
| 00:23:33 |
for the whole time |
| 00:23:35 |
after this initial nightmare. |
| 00:23:38 |
The other residents |
| 00:23:41 |
They're Andrew friends now... |
| 00:23:43 |
came in, sat with us, |
| 00:23:46 |
They had a sign-up sheet at the |
| 00:23:50 |
and sit and cry with us |
| 00:23:53 |
and listen to us |
| 00:23:57 |
Great people. |
| 00:23:58 |
The whole hospital grieved. |
| 00:24:01 |
Just picture the masses |
| 00:24:06 |
From memorials |
| 00:24:08 |
to England. |
| 00:24:09 |
- To St. Louis. |
| 00:24:11 |
I'm so proud to say |
| 00:24:13 |
I'd be happy if I had 1/10 |
| 00:24:17 |
as much as they did Andrew. |
| 00:24:40 |
I know at the point |
| 00:24:41 |
she was back in Canada. |
| 00:24:44 |
She was there at the memorial |
| 00:24:46 |
She broke down crying |
| 00:24:48 |
and sobbing really loud, |
| 00:24:50 |
and, you know, I wonder if it |
| 00:24:53 |
And then fear at that point for, |
| 00:24:57 |
She came up |
| 00:24:58 |
and sort of butted one |
| 00:25:01 |
and said just awful things |
| 00:25:04 |
and, obviously, |
| 00:25:07 |
than he ever cared about me. |
| 00:25:08 |
And I definitely |
| 00:25:12 |
Got an e-mail from Shirley. |
| 00:25:14 |
A horrible, scathing e-mail. |
| 00:25:15 |
It was all basically, |
| 00:25:16 |
I was nothing, |
| 00:25:19 |
How wonderful their love was |
| 00:25:22 |
To try to lure her |
| 00:25:24 |
Shirley was invited to the |
| 00:25:26 |
but she didn't take the bait. |
| 00:25:28 |
So, finally, she was charged. |
| 00:25:30 |
She was arrested |
| 00:25:32 |
on December 12, 2001, |
| 00:25:34 |
and was let go on bail |
| 00:25:37 |
And then this flight risk. |
| 00:25:38 |
It seemed to me common sense |
| 00:25:41 |
in the jurisdiction |
| 00:25:43 |
Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden |
| 00:25:45 |
against her release on bail |
| 00:25:46 |
and instead entered |
| 00:25:48 |
with an agreement already |
| 00:25:49 |
Pending the next hearing |
| 00:25:51 |
in the extradition process |
| 00:25:53 |
all Justice David Russell |
| 00:25:55 |
was post $75,000 in sureties. |
| 00:25:58 |
$65,000 of this was posted |
| 00:26:01 |
but I'll come back to him. |
| 00:26:02 |
Turn in her passports, |
| 00:26:04 |
sign in once a week |
| 00:26:06 |
promise not to leave |
| 00:26:07 |
and avoid contact |
| 00:26:09 |
And with that, |
| 00:26:11 |
let a probable pre-meditated |
| 00:26:14 |
walk the streets. |
| 00:26:16 |
- I thought it was crazy. |
| 00:26:17 |
- Should never have been. |
| 00:26:20 |
Who the hell |
| 00:26:21 |
I could not believe |
| 00:26:24 |
But the most unbelievable part |
| 00:26:27 |
Kurt, this is Matt Oetinger. |
| 00:26:30 |
I just got a call |
| 00:26:32 |
The abbreviated version is |
| 00:26:36 |
held a press conference |
| 00:26:38 |
and announced |
| 00:26:40 |
with Andrew's baby. |
| 00:26:41 |
They can't prove it |
| 00:26:44 |
If it is true, the Bagbys |
| 00:26:51 |
My movie now took on |
| 00:26:53 |
It was no longer just my search |
| 00:26:55 |
It might be the only way you |
| 00:26:58 |
see, and get to know him. |
| 00:27:00 |
This is a time machine. |
| 00:27:02 |
Yes. |
| 00:27:04 |
And I vowed to collect |
| 00:27:06 |
before they were gone. |
| 00:27:07 |
So, finally, I set off. |
| 00:27:10 |
to interview your grandma's |
| 00:27:12 |
Then I'd return to the U.S. |
| 00:27:13 |
to do an epic road trip |
| 00:27:16 |
I'd start on the west coast |
| 00:27:18 |
stopping to interview all of |
| 00:27:20 |
along the way. |
| 00:27:21 |
And I would keep driving |
| 00:27:24 |
in St. John's, Newfoundland, |
| 00:27:25 |
the eastern-most point |
| 00:27:27 |
where the last living piece |
| 00:27:31 |
would be waiting for me. |
| 00:27:32 |
I grabbed |
| 00:27:34 |
a 16mm wind-up movie camera, |
| 00:27:36 |
I have a good idea. |
| 00:27:38 |
I'll go back in time |
| 00:27:40 |
And set off on a quest |
| 00:27:43 |
And while I raced to rescue |
| 00:27:45 |
your grandma and grandpa |
| 00:27:47 |
dug into their savings, |
| 00:27:49 |
to move to Newfoundland |
| 00:27:54 |
I met Kate and David |
| 00:27:58 |
I'll never forget it. |
| 00:28:00 |
They needed a lawyer |
| 00:28:02 |
in making sure that their rights |
| 00:28:04 |
and the baby's rights |
| 00:28:06 |
I instantly liked them. |
| 00:28:08 |
I thought |
| 00:28:10 |
that they have a relationship |
| 00:28:12 |
Our lawyer Jackie |
| 00:28:14 |
an administrator somewhere |
| 00:28:17 |
of Child Protective Services, |
| 00:28:18 |
and told her that we, |
| 00:28:22 |
are concerned |
| 00:28:24 |
because the mother is accused |
| 00:28:29 |
To me, I thought they were |
| 00:28:32 |
in how they were bearing up |
| 00:28:35 |
under all of this |
| 00:28:38 |
You know, |
| 00:28:40 |
The next morning, |
| 00:28:41 |
they had to sit in the courtroom |
| 00:28:45 |
When your grandma and grandpa |
| 00:28:47 |
they were told, |
| 00:28:49 |
And they weren't kidding. |
| 00:28:50 |
February 15th. |
| 00:28:52 |
Prosecutor Mike Madden |
| 00:28:53 |
that the extradition request |
| 00:28:55 |
They adjourned until March 11th, |
| 00:28:56 |
when they decided |
| 00:28:58 |
to select a date |
| 00:28:59 |
on March 25th, |
| 00:29:01 |
to set the date |
| 00:29:03 |
for May 27th, where they got |
| 00:29:05 |
the French-versus-English |
| 00:29:06 |
of Section 32 |
| 00:29:08 |
and decided to adjourn |
| 00:29:09 |
for a specific translation |
| 00:29:11 |
a hearing |
| 00:29:13 |
at which Judge Derek Green |
| 00:29:14 |
said he wasn't in a position |
| 00:29:16 |
and they would adjourn again |
| 00:29:19 |
And while they waited for |
| 00:29:22 |
your grandma and grandpa made |
| 00:29:25 |
They made friends |
| 00:29:27 |
People in the legal community, |
| 00:29:29 |
But here at St. Michael's, |
| 00:29:31 |
yeah, they got right in there |
| 00:29:35 |
It seems like |
| 00:29:37 |
Basically, they have more |
| 00:29:38 |
than we do. |
| 00:29:39 |
Well, |
| 00:29:41 |
The land mass is as big as... |
| 00:29:44 |
Well, maybe not quite as big |
| 00:29:46 |
but not far off. |
| 00:29:47 |
And yet we only have |
| 00:29:51 |
scattered over that land mass. |
| 00:29:53 |
You can't go anywhere |
| 00:29:54 |
without running into somebody |
| 00:29:55 |
I mean, it's the oldest city |
| 00:29:57 |
It's a very safe place, I think. |
| 00:29:59 |
The big drawback |
| 00:30:01 |
is getting out of here. |
| 00:30:02 |
The weather here is terrible. |
| 00:30:06 |
We have 8 months of winter |
| 00:30:08 |
And the other very consistent |
| 00:30:10 |
is that the people |
| 00:30:12 |
How would you describe them |
| 00:30:13 |
to someone who had |
| 00:30:14 |
Oh, do you have an hour? |
| 00:30:16 |
I was hoping you would ask me |
| 00:30:19 |
who are very... |
| 00:30:20 |
Young at heart. |
| 00:30:21 |
Childish. |
| 00:30:23 |
He's an engineer |
| 00:30:25 |
The guy likes Pintos, okay? |
| 00:30:27 |
Logical. |
| 00:30:28 |
Does things in steps, |
| 00:30:30 |
Comparing Andrew as a teenager |
| 00:30:34 |
- they're almost twins. |
| 00:30:36 |
- It was wonderful. |
| 00:30:38 |
He always calls you "mate," |
| 00:30:41 |
"How you doing, mate?" |
| 00:30:42 |
And Kate calls you "love." |
| 00:30:44 |
Oh, I thought she was feisty. |
| 00:30:46 |
Like a little ball of fire. |
| 00:30:48 |
She's so tiny, and then |
| 00:30:50 |
It's great if she's on your side |
| 00:30:52 |
because she'll always stand |
| 00:30:54 |
and those that she loves. |
| 00:30:55 |
They're a rare pair. |
| 00:30:58 |
They were from the start. |
| 00:31:00 |
In itself, it's quite a story, |
| 00:31:05 |
I was going to come here |
| 00:31:07 |
then I was going on to Australia |
| 00:31:09 |
work my way around the world. |
| 00:31:10 |
And then I was going |
| 00:31:12 |
And I wasn't |
| 00:31:13 |
because that was not on my list |
| 00:31:15 |
I was in the Navy, |
| 00:31:16 |
stationed on an aircraft |
| 00:31:18 |
in Long Beach, California. |
| 00:31:20 |
A guy came into the shop |
| 00:31:23 |
and said he had |
| 00:31:24 |
who wanted to go to Disneyland. |
| 00:31:25 |
We were too cheap |
| 00:31:27 |
Yeah, two cheap English nurses. |
| 00:31:29 |
And I took the little one |
| 00:31:30 |
and left him with the tall one. |
| 00:31:33 |
And, uh, they didn't work out |
| 00:31:37 |
We went out 13 times |
| 00:31:39 |
And he could quote Shakespeare, |
| 00:31:41 |
so I knew it was all right. |
| 00:31:43 |
Five months later, I'm married. |
| 00:31:44 |
So we moved down to San Diego |
| 00:31:48 |
But nothing happened. |
| 00:31:49 |
We tried to get pregnant |
| 00:31:53 |
with no result. |
| 00:31:54 |
At some point, they mentioned |
| 00:31:57 |
And then, I mean, |
| 00:32:02 |
Coming to St. Louis and sleeping |
| 00:32:05 |
seemed to make people pregnant. |
| 00:32:07 |
And then, of course, |
| 00:32:08 |
He was two weeks late. |
| 00:32:10 |
Things people should know |
| 00:32:12 |
He was never late. |
| 00:32:38 |
Hi. It's Heather. |
| 00:32:40 |
Shirley went into labor |
| 00:32:44 |
Newfoundland time. |
| 00:32:45 |
On July 18, 2002, you were born. |
| 00:32:50 |
Shirley named you |
| 00:32:53 |
You grandma and grandpa came |
| 00:32:56 |
but Shirley wouldn't let them |
| 00:32:58 |
The stood five feet away from |
| 00:33:03 |
They left a gift for you. |
| 00:33:10 |
Well, |
| 00:33:13 |
You're gonna get |
| 00:33:16 |
of different perspectives |
| 00:33:18 |
You're gonna know |
| 00:33:21 |
and you're gonna know |
| 00:33:23 |
and you're gonna know |
| 00:33:26 |
I flew to England |
| 00:33:27 |
of your grandma's side |
| 00:33:29 |
and arrived just in time |
| 00:33:32 |
Well, we're on the eve |
| 00:33:34 |
It's been a bit hectic. |
| 00:33:35 |
We're just trying to fit |
| 00:33:36 |
in between |
| 00:33:38 |
Your dad crossed the Atlantic to |
| 00:33:40 |
but instead of heading to the |
| 00:33:43 |
like everyone else, |
| 00:33:44 |
he'd head to the outskirts |
| 00:33:45 |
to spend time |
| 00:33:47 |
uncles, and cousins. |
| 00:33:48 |
He was a king to me, man. |
| 00:33:51 |
And, in particular, |
| 00:33:52 |
The main thing, I guess, |
| 00:33:55 |
is that I get to choose |
| 00:33:58 |
Others of you don't. |
| 00:34:00 |
John, me brother, and Andrew |
| 00:34:02 |
were born within a month |
| 00:34:03 |
In fact, I think |
| 00:34:05 |
of the normal child, |
| 00:34:07 |
And then suddenly, snap, |
| 00:34:10 |
We often said at least |
| 00:34:12 |
through life. |
| 00:34:14 |
John would always have Andrew, |
| 00:34:15 |
and Andrew |
| 00:34:17 |
For me, kind of blur |
| 00:34:20 |
running around castles, |
| 00:34:23 |
I mean, these fantastic |
| 00:34:26 |
And, to us, they were places |
| 00:34:28 |
buy water pistols, |
| 00:34:30 |
and then get told off |
| 00:34:32 |
The interesting thing |
| 00:34:33 |
just like |
| 00:34:35 |
between someone coming |
| 00:34:37 |
and someone in the U.K. |
| 00:34:39 |
That used to really bug me, |
| 00:34:40 |
the fact that I knew he was |
| 00:34:42 |
kind of 6 months before me, |
| 00:34:45 |
'Cause, you know, it'd be like, |
| 00:34:46 |
"Don't you dare tell me anything |
| 00:34:48 |
He was almost kind of, as well, |
| 00:34:51 |
into discovering the U.S., |
| 00:34:54 |
You hear people discriminate |
| 00:34:56 |
just in one fell swoop. |
| 00:34:57 |
But I was fortunate enough to |
| 00:34:59 |
I really cherish that, |
| 00:35:02 |
because it is my brother |
| 00:35:08 |
Bizarrely enough, |
| 00:35:09 |
is I always wanted Andrew |
| 00:35:11 |
As I would soon find out, |
| 00:35:14 |
I had always wanted him |
| 00:35:16 |
I had asked him |
| 00:35:17 |
It just made sense |
| 00:35:19 |
I can only assume |
| 00:35:21 |
to be your best man. |
| 00:35:22 |
Everybody grab your glass. |
| 00:35:23 |
We're gonna turn it over |
| 00:35:25 |
Best man's a little bit of a |
| 00:35:27 |
I mean, |
| 00:35:28 |
I've got to try and sum up |
| 00:35:31 |
in, like, 2 minutes or so, |
| 00:35:34 |
'cause, you know, |
| 00:35:36 |
at their champagne and thinking, |
| 00:35:48 |
I miss him. |
| 00:35:50 |
A lot. |
| 00:35:57 |
That I wish he was here |
| 00:36:03 |
That I'd just |
| 00:36:07 |
and talk to him again. |
| 00:36:10 |
Just to have him here with us. |
| 00:36:13 |
I really believe |
| 00:36:16 |
And if we could have heard him |
| 00:36:18 |
it might have sounded |
| 00:36:19 |
Why am I standing up here? |
| 00:36:21 |
I guess part of it |
| 00:36:24 |
We're brothers and I love you |
| 00:36:27 |
and I know you love me and... |
| 00:36:32 |
Yeah. I kind of need to move on |
| 00:36:35 |
'Cause, like I said, |
| 00:36:37 |
We don't gush very much. |
| 00:36:44 |
It made me realize |
| 00:36:45 |
that it doesn't matter |
| 00:36:48 |
You can meet someone |
| 00:36:52 |
you can be closer than someone |
| 00:36:56 |
And someone who'll maybe |
| 00:36:58 |
for the rest of your life. |
| 00:36:59 |
And last question. |
| 00:37:00 |
Is there anything |
| 00:37:03 |
Zachary. |
| 00:37:05 |
Right. |
| 00:37:08 |
Yeah, I hope to see you soon, |
| 00:37:14 |
Jackie had been down earlier |
| 00:37:17 |
that we wanted custody |
| 00:37:19 |
We finally went to court. |
| 00:37:20 |
- You mean family court. |
| 00:37:23 |
You know, |
| 00:37:25 |
I think you know that already, |
| 00:37:27 |
and what access they got |
| 00:37:29 |
We're coming up with agreements |
| 00:37:32 |
And then Shirley Turner came up |
| 00:37:33 |
just at the moment |
| 00:37:35 |
She always did that |
| 00:37:38 |
It was like, "I don't have to |
| 00:37:40 |
You have to pay for yours, |
| 00:37:41 |
so the longer I can make it, |
| 00:37:43 |
You'll run out of money." |
| 00:37:44 |
But then she finally agreed |
| 00:37:46 |
in Unified Family Court. |
| 00:37:49 |
Shirley delayed your grandma |
| 00:37:51 |
for almost a month |
| 00:37:52 |
and had them treated like common |
| 00:37:55 |
She required that during |
| 00:37:56 |
they be fully searched |
| 00:37:59 |
while she waited |
| 00:38:01 |
When did you first meet him? |
| 00:38:02 |
Meet him personally or meet him |
| 00:38:03 |
by seeing the light |
| 00:38:07 |
I mean, we were searched |
| 00:38:08 |
I couldn't wait |
| 00:38:10 |
I would've zipped off |
| 00:38:11 |
as long as I could get |
| 00:38:13 |
We went around the corner, |
| 00:38:14 |
and there was this |
| 00:38:35 |
We did not do complete |
| 00:38:39 |
I just gave him to Kate. |
| 00:38:41 |
No, no, no. |
| 00:38:43 |
- We shared. |
| 00:38:45 |
The next visit, he was really... |
| 00:38:46 |
The next time, he was dirty, |
| 00:38:49 |
And that's when he opened his |
| 00:38:51 |
and that's when I said to David, |
| 00:38:53 |
I had seen lots of pictures |
| 00:38:55 |
and even pictures of him |
| 00:38:57 |
and I thought, "Holy crow," |
| 00:39:01 |
We wanted more time. |
| 00:39:02 |
So we went back. |
| 00:39:04 |
And this time, she accused us |
| 00:39:08 |
so that he was distraught |
| 00:39:10 |
She'd try a lot of manipulations |
| 00:39:13 |
And this one was a no-brainer, |
| 00:39:16 |
If she accuses us of doing |
| 00:39:21 |
she's indirectly accusing |
| 00:39:26 |
- The supervisor? |
| 00:39:27 |
You know, |
| 00:39:30 |
So she just didn't |
| 00:39:32 |
While your grandparents |
| 00:39:33 |
for more time with you |
| 00:39:35 |
the law in the extradition |
| 00:39:37 |
September 19th. |
| 00:39:38 |
The extradition hearing |
| 00:39:40 |
and evidence |
| 00:39:42 |
But just as everything |
| 00:39:44 |
Shirley's lawyer Randy Piercey |
| 00:39:47 |
Because the "authority to |
| 00:39:49 |
provided by the minister |
| 00:39:51 |
had failed to specify |
| 00:39:53 |
of Section 229(a) |
| 00:39:55 |
the authority to proceed |
| 00:39:57 |
the 90-day limit to amend it |
| 00:39:59 |
and therefore all extradition |
| 00:40:01 |
should be dropped so she could |
| 00:40:04 |
Judge Derek Green now |
| 00:40:07 |
to throw out the entire case, |
| 00:40:08 |
which would take place |
| 00:40:10 |
which was delayed four days |
| 00:40:13 |
where Judge Green told Piercey |
| 00:40:15 |
and said they would continue |
| 00:40:16 |
on November 14th. |
| 00:40:19 |
Meanwhile, |
| 00:40:21 |
pointed the van east |
| 00:40:23 |
and set off across the continent |
| 00:40:25 |
stopping all over the map |
| 00:40:27 |
of a whole spectrum of people |
| 00:40:32 |
But it was when I pulled |
| 00:40:34 |
to see your grandpa's family... |
| 00:40:35 |
- Are you the oldest? |
| 00:40:38 |
Bob was the middle one. |
| 00:40:39 |
He's one year younger than me. |
| 00:40:40 |
...that I discovered |
| 00:40:42 |
where your dad |
| 00:40:44 |
Andrew and Bob |
| 00:40:47 |
To see them around each other, |
| 00:40:49 |
had grown up his entire life |
| 00:40:52 |
You wouldn't know that it was |
| 00:40:55 |
Bob used to take Andrew out |
| 00:40:58 |
before he was old enough. |
| 00:40:59 |
And they'd play pool. |
| 00:41:01 |
And my dad was very good |
| 00:41:02 |
but then Mack came along who was |
| 00:41:05 |
I would say he was excellent, |
| 00:41:09 |
He probably still owes me |
| 00:41:12 |
Okay, Mack is my daughter |
| 00:41:17 |
I don't know. |
| 00:41:18 |
I mean, they just clicked. |
| 00:41:21 |
Automatically my little brother. |
| 00:41:23 |
That's the way I looked at it, |
| 00:41:27 |
We just become friends. |
| 00:41:32 |
This is our clubhouse |
| 00:41:35 |
And he used to love |
| 00:41:39 |
As soon as he'd hit town, |
| 00:41:41 |
we'd come down here |
| 00:41:43 |
Dave and Katie and them |
| 00:41:44 |
Always have a big barbecue |
| 00:41:46 |
Get the johnboat |
| 00:41:47 |
He was the captain. |
| 00:41:48 |
Me and Bob got to the point |
| 00:41:51 |
who was gonna drive the boat |
| 00:41:52 |
At nighttime, they'd stack up |
| 00:41:56 |
And we'd buy fireworks, |
| 00:41:57 |
It'd be beautiful 'cause |
| 00:41:59 |
"That's really stupid, me |
| 00:42:01 |
when you're gonna be |
| 00:42:02 |
You ought to know yourself." |
| 00:42:03 |
I said, "If you're smart, |
| 00:42:06 |
Doctor came into the room |
| 00:42:10 |
He said that the cancer |
| 00:42:14 |
to his bones and to his liver. |
| 00:42:17 |
Bob looked at him and said, |
| 00:42:19 |
He said, "3 to 6 months." |
| 00:42:21 |
I mean, I can come down here |
| 00:42:24 |
I just don't have time anymore, |
| 00:42:27 |
I lost... |
| 00:42:33 |
I lost total interest |
| 00:42:35 |
when Bob died, for some reason. |
| 00:42:37 |
I know it was hard on Andrew, |
| 00:42:42 |
'Cause he wrote me |
| 00:42:46 |
Bob was very proud of him. |
| 00:42:50 |
Imagine him and Andrew |
| 00:42:57 |
Both assholes. |
| 00:43:04 |
Are you sad now? |
| 00:43:05 |
Yeah, I'm still sad. |
| 00:43:10 |
I'll be okay. |
| 00:43:12 |
Come here. |
| 00:43:14 |
That'd make me feel better. |
| 00:43:16 |
He was great. |
| 00:43:18 |
If there's anything I can do, |
| 00:43:20 |
Well, we hope to see him. |
| 00:43:21 |
And we can show him pictures |
| 00:43:24 |
We'd love to be a part of that |
| 00:43:25 |
To share our lives with him. |
| 00:43:27 |
Oh, how I wish I could be there |
| 00:43:31 |
Zachary, you'll never know |
| 00:43:48 |
On November 14, 2002, |
| 00:43:50 |
Judge Derek Green declared |
| 00:43:53 |
could likely find Shirley guilty |
| 00:43:54 |
and ordered her incarcerated |
| 00:43:56 |
in the Clarenville |
| 00:43:57 |
awaiting a decision |
| 00:43:59 |
to surrender her |
| 00:44:01 |
She always seemed to know |
| 00:44:04 |
And it was a pretty obvious time |
| 00:44:06 |
Suddenly, Shirley turned around |
| 00:44:07 |
and gave your grandma |
| 00:44:09 |
for as long |
| 00:44:10 |
We could stop in and see him |
| 00:44:12 |
And we did. |
| 00:44:13 |
They were so excited, |
| 00:44:16 |
and, you know, it had started |
| 00:44:18 |
The doorbell was ringing, |
| 00:44:20 |
and someone showed up |
| 00:44:21 |
And then Alan Goodridge, |
| 00:44:24 |
one of Andrew's professors, |
| 00:44:27 |
I don't know what. |
| 00:44:28 |
And then, you know, |
| 00:44:30 |
Have you got the Magi |
| 00:44:33 |
We went to church with them |
| 00:44:35 |
If Zachary got fussy, you know, |
| 00:44:38 |
and they would feed him |
| 00:44:39 |
and they'd walk |
| 00:44:41 |
If there's people in this church |
| 00:44:43 |
it looks like these are |
| 00:44:45 |
we're the parents, |
| 00:44:47 |
I said, |
| 00:44:50 |
He was besotted with them, |
| 00:44:52 |
You know, |
| 00:44:55 |
Only Kate. |
| 00:44:56 |
They were so happy. |
| 00:44:57 |
But it wasn't all sweetness |
| 00:44:59 |
You came with strings attached. |
| 00:45:00 |
The reason we reached consent |
| 00:45:02 |
and the reason |
| 00:45:04 |
is if you reach consent, |
| 00:45:08 |
We'd accept a phone call a day |
| 00:45:13 |
Which the foster home |
| 00:45:15 |
This is Aliant Telecom. |
| 00:45:17 |
- You have a collect call from... |
| 00:45:20 |
You may press 1 now |
| 00:45:23 |
- Hello? |
| 00:46:03 |
Or "Mommy with baby." |
| 00:46:46 |
We'd bring him up to the prison |
| 00:46:54 |
That was astounding. |
| 00:47:00 |
Imposition. |
| 00:47:02 |
Each week, |
| 00:47:03 |
to the jail where Shirley was |
| 00:47:05 |
so that she would be able |
| 00:47:08 |
and to follow |
| 00:47:09 |
because just as Kate and David |
| 00:47:12 |
they had to honor |
| 00:47:15 |
And in the winter. |
| 00:47:16 |
But the weather, needless |
| 00:47:18 |
The weather here is terrible. |
| 00:47:19 |
To make that journey was awful. |
| 00:47:22 |
Only Kate and David would have |
| 00:47:26 |
Nobody else would have done it. |
| 00:47:28 |
The one guard, the one day, |
| 00:47:31 |
speaking to Zachary, |
| 00:47:32 |
"Zachary, I hope some day |
| 00:47:35 |
how brave and courageous |
| 00:47:39 |
Like, I think if I could be |
| 00:47:42 |
that Kate is, |
| 00:47:44 |
You know, |
| 00:47:47 |
Just to see the looks |
| 00:47:49 |
when they'd have him, you know. |
| 00:47:51 |
You know, to see them so happy. |
| 00:47:58 |
And then, you know, |
| 00:48:05 |
Now crossing the east coast |
| 00:48:07 |
I was almost to you. |
| 00:48:09 |
I pulled off the main road |
| 00:48:11 |
a small-town utopia |
| 00:48:12 |
where your dad had spent the |
| 00:48:15 |
It was here that I would find |
| 00:48:17 |
who knew what he was like |
| 00:48:19 |
just days |
| 00:48:20 |
and scatter to the winds. |
| 00:48:22 |
Latrobe is famous |
| 00:48:25 |
Of children's TV fame. |
| 00:48:27 |
Rolling Rock beer. |
| 00:48:28 |
It's the birthplace |
| 00:48:30 |
though some would argue that. |
| 00:48:32 |
At Strickler's Pharmacy, |
| 00:48:33 |
I'm told that the banana split |
| 00:48:36 |
And Arnold Palmer. |
| 00:48:37 |
Mr. Palmer's a very important |
| 00:48:41 |
This is a community where people |
| 00:48:42 |
Your dad's door |
| 00:48:44 |
was directly across the street |
| 00:48:45 |
giving him |
| 00:48:47 |
And I said, |
| 00:48:49 |
And he goes, "Actually, |
| 00:48:50 |
He said, |
| 00:48:52 |
you can call me 'Bagby,' |
| 00:48:54 |
I never did. |
| 00:48:55 |
Ten minutes after I arrived, |
| 00:48:56 |
Dr. Bill DiCuccio picked me up |
| 00:49:01 |
His class, it was Bill DiCuccio. |
| 00:49:03 |
And after hanging with Bill |
| 00:49:05 |
I completely understood why. |
| 00:49:06 |
This is yours to take with you |
| 00:49:08 |
to remember |
| 00:49:09 |
They were like Mutt and Jeff. |
| 00:49:11 |
They were Tweedledee |
| 00:49:12 |
Bill was just devastated, as |
| 00:49:16 |
I think Bill had spent more time |
| 00:49:18 |
And I know there was |
| 00:49:20 |
who was quite close with him. |
| 00:49:22 |
He was this surgical resident |
| 00:49:25 |
Being a former surgical intern, |
| 00:49:27 |
They're all about cutting, |
| 00:49:28 |
and what we do |
| 00:49:30 |
It's more about people. |
| 00:49:32 |
I would say to him, |
| 00:49:34 |
and you listen to the heart |
| 00:49:36 |
because, you know, people talk. |
| 00:49:37 |
They're not just unconscious |
| 00:49:39 |
Your dad also had an office |
| 00:49:41 |
at the last place |
| 00:49:43 |
a clinic in the small town |
| 00:49:46 |
a beautiful 30-minute drive away |
| 00:49:48 |
past a lovely spot |
| 00:49:51 |
He was already, |
| 00:49:53 |
already getting patients to call |
| 00:49:57 |
Hi. I'm Dr. Bagby. |
| 00:49:58 |
People trusted him |
| 00:50:01 |
'Cause medicine's |
| 00:50:02 |
Has anyone else in your family |
| 00:50:05 |
When you think of people |
| 00:50:07 |
you can't help but paint |
| 00:50:10 |
More than half of it |
| 00:50:11 |
is being able to get a story |
| 00:50:14 |
It's not what's happening |
| 00:50:16 |
I'll always be grateful to him |
| 00:50:17 |
because he diagnosed |
| 00:50:18 |
He diagnosed it early enough |
| 00:50:19 |
that he was able to get |
| 00:50:21 |
He was really pretty outstanding |
| 00:50:24 |
He was told |
| 00:50:25 |
He just has a newborn baby. |
| 00:50:27 |
He always told me |
| 00:50:28 |
that he wanted to practice |
| 00:50:31 |
and be like the doc of the town. |
| 00:50:34 |
Know everybody, |
| 00:50:35 |
And we really thought |
| 00:50:39 |
But we packed our bags, |
| 00:50:42 |
'cause we knew we were leaving |
| 00:50:44 |
And we stayed in the upstairs |
| 00:50:48 |
The next morning, |
| 00:50:51 |
And as I say, |
| 00:50:52 |
he was blinking |
| 00:50:54 |
And he did that |
| 00:50:56 |
when he was nervous |
| 00:50:59 |
Just blink. |
| 00:51:01 |
And I wanted to say to him, |
| 00:51:04 |
He stood up. |
| 00:51:06 |
And I remember he looked at us |
| 00:51:08 |
But he came over and |
| 00:51:11 |
And then he got halfway |
| 00:51:13 |
and he came back |
| 00:51:14 |
and we went with him and he |
| 00:51:16 |
And then he got |
| 00:51:19 |
down that alley and just went... |
| 00:51:25 |
And he was gone. |
| 00:51:27 |
That was the last time |
| 00:51:33 |
And I can remember |
| 00:51:36 |
"If I die tomorrow, |
| 00:51:39 |
all I want you to do is sit |
| 00:51:44 |
Do you remember that? |
| 00:51:45 |
When his parents had finished |
| 00:51:47 |
they gave me his last beer. |
| 00:51:50 |
We have one bottle remaining. |
| 00:51:52 |
We're gonna crack Andrew's |
| 00:51:54 |
and Kurt and I |
| 00:51:57 |
A little toast to our friend. |
| 00:52:00 |
To Andrew, my good friend, |
| 00:52:06 |
And then, of course, |
| 00:52:09 |
They let her out of jail again. |
| 00:52:11 |
And we had to give him back |
| 00:52:13 |
on January 10, 2003. |
| 00:52:15 |
Shirley was out of money |
| 00:52:17 |
so she wrote directly |
| 00:52:19 |
who responded |
| 00:52:20 |
with instructions |
| 00:52:22 |
of his decision |
| 00:52:24 |
while awaiting an order |
| 00:52:25 |
to surrender her to the States. |
| 00:52:27 |
I have a few friends |
| 00:52:28 |
and there's no way |
| 00:52:30 |
they would ever have responded |
| 00:52:32 |
in the way that judge responded |
| 00:52:35 |
She did and was let back |
| 00:52:37 |
Judge Gale Welsh. |
| 00:52:39 |
Judge Gale Welsh. |
| 00:52:41 |
Welsh refused to even consider |
| 00:52:42 |
Prosecutor |
| 00:52:44 |
that Shirley's appeal |
| 00:52:45 |
even though multiple |
| 00:52:47 |
had reviewed her appeal |
| 00:52:48 |
and refused to waste their time |
| 00:52:50 |
And if you could have seen her, |
| 00:52:51 |
I knew that we were going to be |
| 00:52:54 |
the minute that woman walked |
| 00:52:57 |
She was almost fawning with |
| 00:53:01 |
"Oh, Dr. Turner," she said. |
| 00:53:03 |
"I recognize |
| 00:53:04 |
but also know that, as a doctor, |
| 00:53:06 |
so I'm going to run... |
| 00:53:07 |
Dr. Turner, |
| 00:53:09 |
however the argument |
| 00:53:11 |
That's why |
| 00:53:13 |
in Mr. Madden's response." |
| 00:53:14 |
I'd taken Zachary to prison. |
| 00:53:15 |
I'd sat in that same little room |
| 00:53:17 |
And here I am |
| 00:53:18 |
and the judge fawn |
| 00:53:20 |
And Welsh actually asked |
| 00:53:22 |
to promise she'd behave herself. |
| 00:53:24 |
"If I make an order giving you |
| 00:53:26 |
it would be on the basis that |
| 00:53:28 |
or hide or avoid subsequent |
| 00:53:30 |
related to this matter?" |
| 00:53:31 |
"Yes." |
| 00:53:32 |
"Is that completely understood |
| 00:53:33 |
"Yes, I completely understand." |
| 00:53:35 |
And here are David and I |
| 00:53:37 |
And we don't exist. |
| 00:53:39 |
They don't even care |
| 00:53:41 |
She concluded that... |
| 00:53:42 |
And this is |
| 00:53:44 |
"Dr. Turner's detention |
| 00:53:45 |
in the public interest. |
| 00:53:46 |
While the offence |
| 00:53:48 |
is a violent and serious one, |
| 00:53:49 |
it was not directed |
| 00:53:51 |
There is no indication |
| 00:53:53 |
that would give concern |
| 00:53:54 |
about potential harm |
| 00:53:56 |
as her crime, while violent, |
| 00:53:59 |
She is saying, in effect, |
| 00:54:03 |
even if she did it, she's not |
| 00:54:07 |
because she's already killed |
| 00:54:10 |
He's the one she was mad at. |
| 00:54:12 |
He's dead. |
| 00:54:14 |
So she's not likely |
| 00:54:17 |
And I find that logic |
| 00:54:21 |
Most of us do not kill people |
| 00:54:23 |
We go kick a door, |
| 00:54:25 |
some of us throw a punch, |
| 00:54:26 |
but we don't set them up |
| 00:54:28 |
You have here a human being |
| 00:54:29 |
who thinks they have the right |
| 00:54:31 |
to kill other people |
| 00:54:34 |
And you still let them out |
| 00:54:37 |
I find that appalling. |
| 00:54:39 |
She was again let go |
| 00:54:42 |
not one penny of which |
| 00:54:43 |
And with that, |
| 00:54:45 |
let a probable pre-meditated |
| 00:54:48 |
walk the streets again. |
| 00:54:51 |
And they gave you back to her. |
| 00:54:56 |
And after that, |
| 00:55:03 |
We went and wrote |
| 00:55:06 |
And we agreed |
| 00:55:09 |
with 3 or 4 hours |
| 00:55:13 |
and an overnight |
| 00:55:14 |
We got them to let us have |
| 00:55:20 |
- in order to... |
| 00:55:24 |
Otherwise, |
| 00:55:35 |
Because we've always had to |
| 00:55:37 |
And then that third party |
| 00:55:40 |
And we saw that we'd never get |
| 00:55:43 |
because she could always find |
| 00:55:45 |
that there was nobody there, |
| 00:55:53 |
So this evolved into us actually |
| 00:55:58 |
with Shirley Turner. |
| 00:56:06 |
In order to be around Zachary. |
| 00:56:12 |
- What kind of things did you do? |
| 00:56:15 |
Go to the movies. |
| 00:56:20 |
She came here, bold as brass, |
| 00:56:23 |
coming to be "in our face" |
| 00:56:29 |
I had enormous fears for them. |
| 00:56:31 |
I had a fear that Shirley |
| 00:56:38 |
And they didn't seem to be |
| 00:56:40 |
In fact, they said they weren't. |
| 00:56:47 |
That, at this point, |
| 00:56:53 |
Can you describe what that |
| 00:56:59 |
- Disgusting! |
| 00:57:09 |
But going up to the door, |
| 00:57:16 |
Having to be with her... |
| 00:57:23 |
...was just nauseating. |
| 00:57:42 |
We religiously did not talk |
| 00:58:00 |
She'd try to suck us |
| 00:58:03 |
Like, she'd talk about, |
| 00:58:04 |
"Was Andrew's hair light |
| 00:58:06 |
And we'd just shut up. |
| 00:58:17 |
I thought it |
| 00:58:21 |
Nobody wants to do it, |
| 00:58:28 |
So facing this bitch... |
| 00:58:36 |
...that's the price |
| 00:58:38 |
to make sure we had a good |
| 00:58:43 |
He knew us. |
| 00:58:47 |
So that when she finally |
| 00:58:51 |
...he'd have a smooth transition |
| 00:59:08 |
I just feel awe about that. |
| 00:59:11 |
I can't... |
| 00:59:13 |
I don't know how they did it, |
| 00:59:15 |
I don't know how they did it, |
| 00:59:32 |
And, finally, after thousands |
| 00:59:37 |
on a rainy Sunday afternoon, |
| 00:59:44 |
Hello, bud! |
| 00:59:46 |
Hello! |
| 00:59:47 |
This is your Uncle Kurt. |
| 00:59:51 |
Hi, buddy. |
| 00:59:55 |
He knew your daddy |
| 00:59:59 |
It's Uncle Kurt. |
| 01:00:03 |
Is there anything that you |
| 01:00:06 |
Oh, wow. |
| 01:00:07 |
Without tearing up here? |
| 01:00:10 |
First of all, |
| 01:00:12 |
And you are a very cute kid, |
| 01:00:14 |
and you look |
| 01:00:16 |
Definitely the cheeky |
| 01:00:21 |
Zachary, |
| 01:00:23 |
And you're |
| 01:00:26 |
Your father, |
| 01:00:28 |
was such an amazing guy. |
| 01:00:31 |
And he touched so many people |
| 01:00:36 |
It's not just stories. |
| 01:00:39 |
Quite frankly, |
| 01:00:41 |
Wouldn't eat anything green |
| 01:00:43 |
Zachary is asleep |
| 01:00:46 |
He's spending the night. |
| 01:00:48 |
And you're |
| 01:00:51 |
because you're more |
| 01:00:52 |
without your biological father |
| 01:00:58 |
But with a little bit of luck, |
| 01:01:00 |
you'll get to grow up |
| 01:01:03 |
And let me tell you this. |
| 01:01:06 |
They did the most amazing job. |
| 01:01:09 |
You couldn't ask |
| 01:01:12 |
Grandma loves you, |
| 01:01:15 |
Granddad loves you, |
| 01:01:17 |
Daddy loves you, |
| 01:01:20 |
Uncle Kurt's here, |
| 01:01:22 |
We all love you, all we can |
| 01:01:25 |
Darling, darling little man |
| 01:01:27 |
So, from that perspective, |
| 01:01:29 |
you're the luckiest little boy |
| 01:01:30 |
They love you |
| 01:01:33 |
And if you ever need anything, |
| 01:01:36 |
And know that we'll be there |
| 01:01:38 |
in every way that he can't be. |
| 01:01:41 |
Zach, when you're old enough |
| 01:01:44 |
if you ever want to talk with me |
| 01:01:46 |
or you want to come and see me, |
| 01:01:47 |
you have an open invitation |
| 01:01:50 |
And you're loved |
| 01:01:52 |
and I care about the person |
| 01:01:53 |
We love him, and we do simple |
| 01:01:56 |
- Happy Birthday! |
| 01:01:58 |
I hope to get the chance |
| 01:02:01 |
Oh, I hope I'm Uncle Ken |
| 01:02:03 |
'Cause if you're anything like |
| 01:02:05 |
I think you'll turn out |
| 01:02:08 |
It says "Student Affairs." |
| 01:02:10 |
Who knows? Maybe someday |
| 01:02:12 |
to the Faculty of Medicine. |
| 01:02:13 |
Does this look exciting? |
| 01:02:16 |
Even though |
| 01:02:19 |
you know, he's the blessing |
| 01:02:23 |
I parked the van two blocks away |
| 01:02:25 |
'cause it was |
| 01:02:26 |
with California plates |
| 01:02:27 |
and would give away to Shirley |
| 01:02:30 |
- Sort of a stealth van, you see. |
| 01:02:31 |
If she knew, I was afraid |
| 01:02:32 |
she would find excuses |
| 01:02:34 |
so that I couldn't see you. |
| 01:02:35 |
Every time the doorbell rang, |
| 01:02:38 |
as it could have been her |
| 01:02:40 |
Hi, David. Hi, Kate. |
| 01:02:41 |
On the days we didn't have you, |
| 01:02:43 |
I discovered your dad's |
| 01:02:45 |
met his classmates, found |
| 01:02:48 |
And, finally, |
| 01:02:52 |
with the thing that had set me |
| 01:02:54 |
in the first place. |
| 01:02:55 |
One of the major things |
| 01:02:58 |
or that we had in common, |
| 01:03:01 |
Sometimes |
| 01:03:04 |
and go around the lake |
| 01:03:07 |
and take some pictures |
| 01:03:08 |
I told Andrew, I said, |
| 01:03:10 |
show me a few tricks or whatever |
| 01:03:12 |
and show me |
| 01:03:13 |
I'd still love to see |
| 01:03:16 |
that he took |
| 01:03:17 |
I've never seen any of them. |
| 01:03:39 |
Him and his dad had done quite |
| 01:03:42 |
Right after this happened, |
| 01:03:45 |
saying we should try to think |
| 01:03:48 |
And I felt like |
| 01:03:50 |
that his dad would really feel |
| 01:03:53 |
And then have a wall |
| 01:03:55 |
To be able to say |
| 01:03:58 |
these are the winners, |
| 01:04:00 |
and be like, |
| 01:04:02 |
I think I have a meeting |
| 01:04:03 |
to participate |
| 01:04:05 |
And I find it interesting |
| 01:04:06 |
that you say |
| 01:04:09 |
I wonder if part of it |
| 01:04:10 |
was eventually maybe have |
| 01:04:13 |
"Oh, who took this picture? |
| 01:04:14 |
It's a really nice picture." |
| 01:04:16 |
And have him say, "Oh, me!" |
| 01:04:17 |
I don't know. |
| 01:04:19 |
But it's something he did. |
| 01:04:22 |
On July 18, 2003, |
| 01:04:29 |
Shirley decided to hold |
| 01:04:31 |
at McDonald's. |
| 01:04:32 |
She started to open presents. |
| 01:04:34 |
Well, he wasn't interested |
| 01:04:36 |
He wanted to get down. |
| 01:04:37 |
So, when he got down, |
| 01:04:41 |
Shirley was very, very angry. |
| 01:04:44 |
So she said, |
| 01:04:46 |
Why don't you take him?" |
| 01:04:58 |
Zachary always, |
| 01:05:01 |
would choose Kate over her. |
| 01:05:04 |
That was obvious, and |
| 01:05:08 |
Kate is a warm |
| 01:05:11 |
She was a phony mother. |
| 01:05:13 |
I love you. |
| 01:05:14 |
Mommy loves you. |
| 01:05:16 |
She knew the motions, |
| 01:05:19 |
Zachary. |
| 01:05:21 |
Mommy loves you. |
| 01:05:22 |
She said that she had kids |
| 01:05:24 |
and that she wasn't interested |
| 01:05:26 |
Andrew said she kind of |
| 01:05:27 |
and left them. |
| 01:05:28 |
And she said that they lived |
| 01:05:30 |
and she said that children |
| 01:05:32 |
than they were worth. |
| 01:05:33 |
I believe she's using |
| 01:05:35 |
to manipulate the system |
| 01:05:37 |
and to make Kate and David |
| 01:05:39 |
even if she goes to jail. |
| 01:05:41 |
Fortunately, |
| 01:05:43 |
who are in the system, |
| 01:05:46 |
the child-protection system, |
| 01:05:48 |
that I know personally |
| 01:05:49 |
who have told me |
| 01:05:53 |
The next hearing |
| 01:05:55 |
was set for September 25th, |
| 01:05:56 |
your dad's 30th birthday, |
| 01:05:58 |
where she would likely be |
| 01:06:00 |
and at last returned to the U.S. |
| 01:06:02 |
But, for now, it was time for me |
| 01:06:05 |
- I have to say bye-bye now. |
| 01:06:08 |
Bye-bye to Uncle Kurt? |
| 01:06:09 |
You gonna give him a hug? |
| 01:06:10 |
- Can I have a hug? |
| 01:06:16 |
Was that funny? |
| 01:06:18 |
Bye-bye, sweet pea. |
| 01:06:20 |
I'll see you later, buddy. |
| 01:06:21 |
Well, you'll be a little bigger |
| 01:06:24 |
He had just completed |
| 01:06:26 |
that they do. |
| 01:06:27 |
He's ahead of his time. |
| 01:06:28 |
He's up to par on everything, |
| 01:06:30 |
but he doesn't like to wave |
| 01:06:32 |
- Bye-bye! |
| 01:06:34 |
One of them said, "That's fine, |
| 01:06:37 |
'cause he's got lots of time |
| 01:06:39 |
Is there anything you'd like |
| 01:06:41 |
I'm hoping I'm gonna have |
| 01:06:42 |
to say those things to Zachary. |
| 01:06:48 |
We had been out. |
| 01:06:50 |
There was a little card |
| 01:06:55 |
saying, "Would we contact him?" |
| 01:06:57 |
- I was here. |
| 01:06:58 |
I was at my house. |
| 01:06:59 |
I was home watching |
| 01:07:03 |
And the next thing, I saw a |
| 01:07:06 |
and saying |
| 01:07:09 |
And I was just screaming |
| 01:07:11 |
And I immediately fell |
| 01:07:13 |
So I immediately went over |
| 01:07:15 |
We came here. |
| 01:07:16 |
So we got in the car |
| 01:07:18 |
- Our vicar came by. |
| 01:07:20 |
They're gonna find them. |
| 01:07:21 |
You're overreacting. |
| 01:07:23 |
Look, you know, |
| 01:07:25 |
My first thought |
| 01:07:27 |
She had taken him and run. |
| 01:07:28 |
She couldn't do that. |
| 01:07:30 |
That was about 2 or 3 hours |
| 01:07:32 |
The emotion was overwhelming. |
| 01:07:38 |
They called us and told us |
| 01:07:39 |
of the beach |
| 01:07:42 |
I thought, "They're doing that |
| 01:07:43 |
I had received a call. |
| 01:07:44 |
"We're having a press conference |
| 01:07:47 |
I went to Father Chris, |
| 01:07:49 |
"I think you better stay, |
| 01:07:50 |
because I think I'm gonna be |
| 01:07:51 |
with some really bad news." |
| 01:07:53 |
He told me |
| 01:07:56 |
Along with an adult. |
| 01:07:58 |
I knew then |
| 01:07:59 |
"They're working |
| 01:08:01 |
I said, |
| 01:08:02 |
We came to the door, and it was |
| 01:08:05 |
I thought, "Oh, my gosh, |
| 01:08:06 |
somebody's with them now |
| 01:08:09 |
We went in, and I told them. |
| 01:08:12 |
And what I saw after that |
| 01:08:15 |
I will never forget in my life. |
| 01:08:23 |
Rage. |
| 01:08:25 |
Someone has done that |
| 01:08:27 |
If the person who did this |
| 01:08:32 |
Period. |
| 01:08:33 |
Strangle that fucking bitch |
| 01:08:35 |
Period. |
| 01:08:45 |
And then we went to |
| 01:08:48 |
and we couldn't touch him |
| 01:08:49 |
because they said |
| 01:08:52 |
He hadn't been |
| 01:08:54 |
There's this table and sort of |
| 01:08:59 |
With a white sheet over a body. |
| 01:09:00 |
You could see over the sheets, |
| 01:09:03 |
It's really him. |
| 01:09:08 |
And then Kate's legs quit. |
| 01:09:10 |
She just went straight |
| 01:09:12 |
David was lying on top of Kate |
| 01:09:15 |
We managed to get them out. I |
| 01:09:18 |
I don't know |
| 01:09:21 |
That poor little baby. |
| 01:09:24 |
A summary of the evidence |
| 01:09:28 |
Part Two. |
| 01:09:29 |
In July of 2003, |
| 01:09:32 |
in downtown St. John's. |
| 01:09:33 |
They went out twice |
| 01:09:34 |
until his friends showed him |
| 01:09:35 |
saying she was accused |
| 01:09:38 |
He told her he didn't |
| 01:09:40 |
She then called and left over |
| 01:09:43 |
including one saying |
| 01:09:44 |
and that he needed to... |
| 01:09:46 |
Step up to the plate |
| 01:09:47 |
She wasn't, |
| 01:09:49 |
The night she killed you, |
| 01:09:50 |
she made a phony phone call |
| 01:09:52 |
to a friend's answering machine, |
| 01:09:53 |
claiming to be |
| 01:09:55 |
She took your brother T.J.'s car |
| 01:09:58 |
and drove to the man's house. |
| 01:09:59 |
She got lost along the way |
| 01:10:01 |
and asked a woman for directions |
| 01:10:03 |
around 12:45 a.m. |
| 01:10:04 |
She parked behind his house, |
| 01:10:06 |
left a used tampon and photos of |
| 01:10:08 |
completing her attempt |
| 01:10:10 |
for what she was about to do, |
| 01:10:11 |
then took you down to the ocean |
| 01:10:14 |
A night watchman in the area |
| 01:10:15 |
thought he heard a baby crying |
| 01:10:17 |
around 2:30 a.m. |
| 01:10:18 |
Shirley took her prescription |
| 01:10:19 |
prescribed for her |
| 01:10:22 |
mixed it into your formula, |
| 01:10:24 |
The only good thing |
| 01:10:26 |
is that you were not conscious |
| 01:10:28 |
She then... |
| 01:10:30 |
She then walked |
| 01:10:31 |
and with you strapped |
| 01:10:33 |
she jumped |
| 01:10:37 |
Mommy loves you. |
| 01:10:39 |
Yes, I do. |
| 01:10:40 |
Mommy loves you. |
| 01:10:42 |
Did you have a nice nap? |
| 01:10:44 |
Mommy loves you. |
| 01:10:46 |
Mommy misses you. |
| 01:10:53 |
He was found face upward |
| 01:10:57 |
And the policeman who found him |
| 01:11:00 |
said that he had wrapped him |
| 01:11:03 |
rather than a plastic bag, |
| 01:11:04 |
and he and another officer |
| 01:11:09 |
And he made very sure that |
| 01:11:12 |
from the wicked woman |
| 01:11:14 |
When I sit here, |
| 01:11:20 |
When we came here, |
| 01:11:22 |
David and I realized |
| 01:11:25 |
She was the devil. |
| 01:11:26 |
But people think that you're |
| 01:11:30 |
if you believe in the devil. |
| 01:11:32 |
I haven't prayed |
| 01:11:34 |
I have some issues |
| 01:11:36 |
You know, my faith |
| 01:11:40 |
Was a beautiful service. |
| 01:11:42 |
A real tribute |
| 01:11:44 |
Oh, I don't know how many people |
| 01:11:47 |
Maybe more. |
| 01:11:49 |
I've never seen a coffin |
| 01:11:55 |
They shouldn't have them |
| 01:11:59 |
He was in his little suit |
| 01:12:00 |
that he'd had |
| 01:12:04 |
What went in it? |
| 01:12:05 |
What went in it? |
| 01:12:07 |
And I don't remember |
| 01:12:11 |
Lots of kisses and hugs |
| 01:12:20 |
Lots of hopes and dreams. |
| 01:12:27 |
Your grandma and grandpa |
| 01:12:29 |
and spread your ashes |
| 01:12:32 |
They went back to St. Louis |
| 01:12:33 |
and spread your ashes |
| 01:12:36 |
And I didn't go with him. |
| 01:12:39 |
Andrew wanted to be cremated. |
| 01:12:40 |
Oh, yes. |
| 01:12:41 |
What bothers Kate |
| 01:12:43 |
is that she did not go with him |
| 01:12:45 |
and stay with him |
| 01:12:47 |
He went from the funeral home |
| 01:12:50 |
In plastic bags. |
| 01:12:55 |
With only his head sticking out! |
| 01:12:59 |
Come on, Kate. |
| 01:13:03 |
He wouldn't care about that. |
| 01:13:10 |
That's why we went right up |
| 01:13:23 |
This is what |
| 01:13:26 |
Or maybe she did know. |
| 01:13:28 |
This is what she's leaving. |
| 01:13:34 |
Maybe she did know. |
| 01:13:37 |
If she thought about it at all, |
| 01:13:38 |
she didn't give a good goddamn! |
| 01:13:43 |
And this is what I hate her for. |
| 01:13:47 |
I hate her for a lot of things. |
| 01:13:49 |
Stealing |
| 01:13:51 |
and virtually |
| 01:13:53 |
and then this. |
| 01:13:55 |
Leaving us like this. |
| 01:13:59 |
A couple of times, |
| 01:14:02 |
I considered fixing the problem |
| 01:14:07 |
Pick a night when Kate took |
| 01:14:08 |
so she wouldn't know I was up. |
| 01:14:12 |
Get up in the middle |
| 01:14:14 |
Dream up a pretext. |
| 01:14:15 |
Go kill Shirley and come back |
| 01:14:17 |
so Kate would not know. |
| 01:14:19 |
That way, number one, |
| 01:14:23 |
And number two, even if |
| 01:14:27 |
I'm the first one they come |
| 01:14:29 |
but Kate could truthfully say |
| 01:14:31 |
she didn't know |
| 01:14:32 |
so she might still |
| 01:14:36 |
and get him started, even |
| 01:14:38 |
We've worked through |
| 01:14:42 |
Suppose we grab Zachary and run. |
| 01:14:44 |
Number one, we got to get |
| 01:14:46 |
The big drawback against living |
| 01:14:49 |
There's only three ways |
| 01:14:51 |
Ferry, boat, airplane. |
| 01:14:53 |
The airplane and the ferry |
| 01:14:55 |
as soon as Zachary's missing. |
| 01:14:57 |
We'd have to hire a boat |
| 01:14:59 |
which means you take in |
| 01:15:01 |
to the crime of kidnapping. |
| 01:15:03 |
We cannot ever identify |
| 01:15:07 |
Have cash only stashed |
| 01:15:10 |
Zachary would never be allowed |
| 01:15:14 |
So that path... |
| 01:15:16 |
big, big, big, big risk |
| 01:15:20 |
So that's out. |
| 01:15:21 |
Legal approaches we might |
| 01:15:23 |
File affidavit saying |
| 01:15:26 |
when we were around |
| 01:15:28 |
and said a threat of some kind |
| 01:15:31 |
But that would just be |
| 01:15:34 |
The best shot we had |
| 01:15:38 |
was I kill her myself. |
| 01:15:41 |
Other than doing that, |
| 01:15:45 |
to save Zachary from that bitch. |
| 01:15:55 |
There's a logic in it. |
| 01:15:56 |
But I didn't do it. |
| 01:15:58 |
'Cause I trusted government |
| 01:16:01 |
Government |
| 01:16:02 |
so I don't have to do it |
| 01:16:04 |
In this case, they didn't even |
| 01:16:06 |
and they even gave her a baby |
| 01:16:07 |
My understanding is that |
| 01:16:10 |
I have asked my officials to, |
| 01:16:13 |
to follow up with the board |
| 01:16:16 |
that all the proper protocols |
| 01:16:20 |
They were gambling |
| 01:16:22 |
They were gambling the lives |
| 01:16:23 |
of anyone |
| 01:16:25 |
that Shirley |
| 01:16:27 |
We, the vast majority |
| 01:16:30 |
who don't kill people, |
| 01:16:32 |
We got nowhere to go. |
| 01:16:33 |
We figured we'd hold |
| 01:16:35 |
and try to push |
| 01:16:38 |
The morning that we had |
| 01:16:41 |
I was in the shower. |
| 01:16:42 |
Kate came in with the phone. |
| 01:16:44 |
She says we can't hold |
| 01:16:46 |
Technically, there's still |
| 01:16:51 |
I said, "Fuck them. |
| 01:16:52 |
If they want to lock me up |
| 01:16:54 |
while they let murderers walk |
| 01:16:56 |
We believe that Shirley Turner |
| 01:16:58 |
bears 100% |
| 01:17:01 |
for the murder of our son, |
| 01:17:03 |
We believe that the legal system |
| 01:17:05 |
helped her to kill our grandson, |
| 01:17:08 |
When Shirley Turner was formally |
| 01:17:11 |
we naively thought she would be |
| 01:17:14 |
within a few weeks at the most. |
| 01:17:16 |
When we learned |
| 01:17:18 |
under an order |
| 01:17:20 |
we were numb. |
| 01:17:22 |
Numb! |
| 01:17:23 |
Good afternoon. |
| 01:17:24 |
I'm a documentary filmmaker, |
| 01:17:26 |
and I'm doing a documentary |
| 01:17:28 |
I think all he might have done |
| 01:17:30 |
was probably a bail review. |
| 01:17:32 |
Is that what |
| 01:17:33 |
Yeah, it was December 12, 2001, |
| 01:17:35 |
Okay. |
| 01:17:36 |
Judge Russell is sorry, but he |
| 01:17:38 |
in connection with that matter. |
| 01:17:40 |
Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden |
| 01:17:41 |
didn't even argue against |
| 01:17:44 |
and instead entered |
| 01:17:45 |
with an agreement already |
| 01:17:47 |
Mike Madden speaking. |
| 01:17:48 |
I'm a documentary filmmaker. |
| 01:17:51 |
Wondering |
| 01:17:53 |
in possibly being interviewed |
| 01:17:54 |
No, I don't think so. |
| 01:17:56 |
Not one penny |
| 01:17:57 |
had to be paid |
| 01:17:59 |
nor did they have to show |
| 01:18:01 |
No money's put up. |
| 01:18:03 |
They could have put 20 cents |
| 01:18:05 |
Wouldn't have made |
| 01:18:07 |
Her psychiatrist put up |
| 01:18:08 |
and that's another issue |
| 01:18:10 |
Hi. You've reached |
| 01:18:12 |
Please leave your name, |
| 01:18:14 |
and a brief message. |
| 01:18:15 |
Hi. |
| 01:18:17 |
My call was not returned. |
| 01:18:18 |
Time. We thought |
| 01:18:20 |
Each step |
| 01:18:23 |
each incomprehensible delay, |
| 01:18:24 |
four weeks, six weeks, |
| 01:18:27 |
there was another knife |
| 01:18:29 |
"The law is slow," they told us, |
| 01:18:32 |
Our lawyer Jackie |
| 01:18:34 |
an administrator somewhere |
| 01:18:37 |
of Child Protective Services, |
| 01:18:38 |
and told her |
| 01:18:42 |
about the safety of the baby |
| 01:18:43 |
because the mother is accused |
| 01:18:47 |
And nothing happened. |
| 01:18:50 |
Hello. Department of Health |
| 01:18:52 |
Hi. I'm trying to reach |
| 01:18:54 |
Elizabeth Day is not available. |
| 01:18:57 |
At the tone, |
| 01:19:00 |
My call was not returned. |
| 01:19:01 |
If you were |
| 01:19:03 |
wouldn't you want to know |
| 01:19:06 |
was arranging |
| 01:19:08 |
Nobody ever came to see us. |
| 01:19:09 |
Before we left Sunnyvale, |
| 01:19:11 |
we got a police report |
| 01:19:12 |
Our friends and my employer, |
| 01:19:15 |
that we were upright members |
| 01:19:19 |
Nobody asked us for that. |
| 01:19:20 |
We could have been convicted |
| 01:19:23 |
- They didn't care. |
| 01:19:26 |
She wrote directly |
| 01:19:27 |
who responded |
| 01:19:29 |
with instructions |
| 01:19:30 |
of his decision |
| 01:19:32 |
- Mr. Kuenne? |
| 01:19:33 |
Yeah, |
| 01:19:35 |
What I did is on the record |
| 01:19:39 |
Okay. |
| 01:19:40 |
Under an order |
| 01:19:42 |
Shirley Turner |
| 01:19:46 |
and we went numb again. |
| 01:19:48 |
And we had to give Zachary |
| 01:19:50 |
right back into the hands |
| 01:19:52 |
"There is no indication |
| 01:19:54 |
that would give concern |
| 01:19:55 |
about potential harm |
| 01:19:57 |
Shirley's last boyfriend before |
| 01:20:00 |
that Shirley attempted suicide |
| 01:20:02 |
after he broke up with her |
| 01:20:04 |
"There is no indication |
| 01:20:06 |
that would give concern |
| 01:20:07 |
about potential harm |
| 01:20:09 |
Eight people had |
| 01:20:10 |
"There is no indication |
| 01:20:13 |
that would give concern |
| 01:20:14 |
about potential harm |
| 01:20:15 |
If anyone had bothered to check |
| 01:20:17 |
during her two-month stay, |
| 01:20:18 |
the prison psychiatrist put her |
| 01:20:20 |
every 15 minutes, |
| 01:20:21 |
she was incredibly disruptive, |
| 01:20:22 |
and even threatened to stab |
| 01:20:24 |
"There is no indication |
| 01:20:26 |
that would give concern |
| 01:20:27 |
about potential harm |
| 01:20:29 |
as her crime, while violent, |
| 01:20:32 |
The man she was terrorizing |
| 01:20:33 |
called the police |
| 01:20:35 |
but because he didn't leave his |
| 01:20:37 |
"Her crime, while violent, |
| 01:20:40 |
Andrew rejected her, |
| 01:20:41 |
Zachary rejected her. |
| 01:20:44 |
"Her crime, while violent, |
| 01:20:47 |
Of course the crime |
| 01:20:48 |
She didn't shoot |
| 01:20:50 |
We could not conceive |
| 01:20:52 |
pre-meditated murderer... |
| 01:20:54 |
probable pre-meditated murderer |
| 01:20:59 |
"Dr. Turner's detention |
| 01:21:01 |
in the public interest." |
| 01:21:02 |
Who the hell |
| 01:21:03 |
"Dr. Turner's detention |
| 01:21:05 |
in the public interest." |
| 01:21:06 |
We waited and we waited |
| 01:21:09 |
for the authorities |
| 01:21:13 |
You got a dead body |
| 01:21:15 |
and it means nothing! |
| 01:21:17 |
Under an order |
| 01:21:19 |
Good afternoon. |
| 01:21:20 |
Hi. May I speak to Judge Welsh, |
| 01:21:22 |
- Is she expecting your call? |
| 01:21:24 |
And now we've got |
| 01:21:26 |
that couldn't breathe |
| 01:21:27 |
I just spoke with Judge Welsh, |
| 01:21:29 |
She said no, so I just |
| 01:21:30 |
"Dr. Turner's detention |
| 01:21:32 |
in the public interest." |
| 01:21:34 |
Son of a... |
| 01:21:50 |
She had to be stopped. |
| 01:21:52 |
The people who were supposed |
| 01:21:55 |
And she got to kill again. |
| 01:21:58 |
And I'm gonna do my damnedest |
| 01:22:00 |
to see if I can make them change |
| 01:22:03 |
And with that, your grandma |
| 01:22:06 |
We victims... |
| 01:22:08 |
We want, number one, |
| 01:22:11 |
about why Zachary died. |
| 01:22:13 |
They've developed a program, |
| 01:22:15 |
for people |
| 01:22:18 |
you know, violent death. |
| 01:22:19 |
Welcome to our first Victims |
| 01:22:23 |
In this last year, |
| 01:22:26 |
to become a child advocate |
| 01:22:30 |
John Doucet, the psychiatrist |
| 01:22:34 |
for Ms. Turner, |
| 01:22:35 |
was found guilty |
| 01:22:38 |
It was David Bagby and his wife |
| 01:22:39 |
who launched the complaint |
| 01:22:41 |
The three-person panel |
| 01:22:43 |
to undergo |
| 01:22:45 |
There was a lot of sympathy |
| 01:22:48 |
I think it got them |
| 01:22:50 |
that they were hoping |
| 01:22:52 |
Mr. Wicks, |
| 01:22:53 |
Child and Youth Advocate |
| 01:22:54 |
is doing a Child Death Review, |
| 01:22:56 |
which is a formal investigation |
| 01:22:58 |
and the output of it |
| 01:23:01 |
"Here's why that baby died." |
| 01:23:02 |
And recommendations for changes |
| 01:23:04 |
to cut the chance |
| 01:23:07 |
Obviously, once that's done, |
| 01:23:09 |
then we would like to see |
| 01:23:11 |
to whatever legislative bodies, |
| 01:23:13 |
either provincial or federal, |
| 01:23:15 |
can write laws to make |
| 01:23:22 |
And a report into the death |
| 01:23:25 |
will be released |
| 01:23:26 |
He was drowned by his mother. |
| 01:23:28 |
Your grandma was |
| 01:23:30 |
and couldn't make the trip, |
| 01:23:31 |
so your grandpa and I |
| 01:23:32 |
Dr. Markesteyn conducted |
| 01:23:36 |
over a 15-month period. |
| 01:23:37 |
He reached two key conclusions. |
| 01:23:40 |
One, Zachary Turner's death |
| 01:23:43 |
And, two, |
| 01:23:45 |
when he should not have been. |
| 01:23:46 |
The government has received |
| 01:23:49 |
that concluded |
| 01:23:51 |
failed Zachary Turner. |
| 01:23:52 |
A serious lack of judgment |
| 01:23:56 |
Substandard |
| 01:23:58 |
contributed to the outcomes. |
| 01:23:59 |
There are 58 recommendations |
| 01:24:01 |
I am announcing our action plan. |
| 01:24:03 |
We will develop policy |
| 01:24:06 |
whose parents are charged |
| 01:24:08 |
The part I was most interested |
| 01:24:12 |
Why was Dr. Shirley Turner |
| 01:24:14 |
judicial interim release, |
| 01:24:17 |
This is the one question |
| 01:24:19 |
that Dr. Markesteyn did not |
| 01:24:21 |
So, that's still an open wound, |
| 01:24:23 |
May I? |
| 01:24:24 |
He did say this, |
| 01:24:25 |
"Had Dr. Turner |
| 01:24:27 |
on 12 December 2001 |
| 01:24:29 |
or on 10 January 2003, |
| 01:24:32 |
my review would have been |
| 01:24:35 |
Zachary would be alive today." |
| 01:24:37 |
I would like to see |
| 01:24:39 |
denying bail to people accused |
| 01:24:42 |
Put them on the fast track |
| 01:24:44 |
and get on with it, |
| 01:24:46 |
The only way |
| 01:24:47 |
is for every citizen who cares |
| 01:24:50 |
that "This law is stupid. |
| 01:24:52 |
And, of course, |
| 01:24:54 |
She not only killed Andrew, |
| 01:24:56 |
but she left three other |
| 01:24:58 |
which is very sad for them. |
| 01:25:00 |
And what kind of regret |
| 01:25:02 |
Well, if things were different, |
| 01:25:05 |
I guess it's possible |
| 01:25:07 |
and rather than memories |
| 01:25:11 |
there'd be a lot of years there |
| 01:25:13 |
- Tough losing a little brother. |
| 01:25:16 |
Zachary should be right here |
| 01:25:18 |
He should be off |
| 01:25:20 |
getting ready to go |
| 01:25:21 |
I am going to continue to scream |
| 01:25:23 |
about bail for someone accused |
| 01:25:41 |
I'd traveled the world for years |
| 01:25:42 |
looking for what was left |
| 01:25:44 |
I'd made dozens of new friends. |
| 01:25:46 |
Dr. DiCuccio has made the trek |
| 01:25:48 |
But there was still one question |
| 01:25:50 |
How would I know |
| 01:25:53 |
And what was I |
| 01:25:54 |
Both as spirituality |
| 01:25:57 |
the relocation of |
| 01:26:00 |
It's interesting |
| 01:26:01 |
My first response was, |
| 01:26:04 |
That is simply a mass of tissue |
| 01:26:10 |
Something leaves a body |
| 01:26:13 |
What was I trying to find? |
| 01:26:14 |
To resolve our grief, |
| 01:26:15 |
we have to be able to accept |
| 01:26:19 |
Who's interviewing you, Kurt? |
| 01:26:20 |
Get our questions answered |
| 01:26:23 |
and to basically surrender |
| 01:26:25 |
to the things |
| 01:26:28 |
And how would I know |
| 01:26:30 |
I appreciate you doing this |
| 01:26:32 |
'Cause I know he talked |
| 01:26:33 |
- He'd talk about you. |
| 01:26:38 |
Well, then, you're not |
| 01:26:43 |
'Cause that's what |
| 01:26:45 |
I know he loved you. |
| 01:26:46 |
And then to be able |
| 01:26:49 |
remembering the person. |
| 01:26:50 |
To be able to remember their |
| 01:26:54 |
No, no, no. |
| 01:26:55 |
It's not far off. |
| 01:26:58 |
I didn't want to stop making |
| 01:27:00 |
That would mean I'd learned |
| 01:27:03 |
and finished |
| 01:27:05 |
Earl Grollman says grief is |
| 01:27:09 |
He doesn't like to wave goodbye. |
| 01:27:11 |
I'll miss you. |
| 01:27:15 |
- Well, I'll be going. |
| 01:27:21 |
One more time. |
| 01:27:23 |
It is my brother |
| 01:27:26 |
One more time. |
| 01:27:27 |
This is your Uncle Kurt. |
| 01:27:30 |
One more time. |
| 01:27:37 |
When the person says, |
| 01:27:38 |
"Life will never be |
| 01:27:41 |
they now know where they are |
| 01:27:43 |
and what's involved |
| 01:27:46 |
There were so many stories |
| 01:27:49 |
And somewhere |
| 01:27:52 |
I almost gave up making |
| 01:27:55 |
I couldn't see the point |
| 01:27:57 |
But something kept me going. |
| 01:28:00 |
And then one day I realized |
| 01:28:04 |
This film was no longer |
| 01:28:07 |
It was now a letter |
| 01:28:09 |
We thought |
| 01:28:11 |
get everything organized, |
| 01:28:13 |
and then kill ourselves, |
| 01:28:15 |
Everybody always says, |
| 01:28:16 |
"What would be the difference |
| 01:28:18 |
You've still got a hell of a lot |
| 01:28:21 |
and you've still got a lot |
| 01:28:25 |
who love you very, very much. |
| 01:28:27 |
You are the most amazing and... |
| 01:28:29 |
I love both of you. |
| 01:28:31 |
...the strongest people |
| 01:28:33 |
- I love you guys. |
| 01:28:35 |
- I love them very much. |
| 01:28:37 |
Now, how am I gonna do this |
| 01:28:39 |
I admire you and respect you |
| 01:28:42 |
One, for such a wonderful |
| 01:28:44 |
It doesn't matter what happened. |
| 01:28:47 |
Thanks for bringing such a |
| 01:28:49 |
You know, |
| 01:28:52 |
as far as who I am today. |
| 01:28:53 |
We won't forget their son. |
| 01:28:55 |
...and for having the strength |
| 01:28:56 |
to make it through |
| 01:28:57 |
With what you've been through, |
| 01:29:01 |
still to hold your heads up and |
| 01:29:05 |
is amazing. |
| 01:29:07 |
They've done it in such a way |
| 01:29:09 |
to know them |
| 01:29:11 |
I think God put some people |
| 01:29:13 |
just to be examples |
| 01:29:15 |
You are two very, |
| 01:29:18 |
There's a few things in my life |
| 01:29:19 |
that have had an effect on me |
| 01:29:22 |
I don't know how else. |
| 01:29:24 |
- We love you. |
| 01:29:25 |
- We're always thinking of you. |
| 01:29:28 |
My thoughts are never far |
| 01:29:30 |
I love them and pray for them. |
| 01:29:31 |
God's blessings on them both. |
| 01:29:33 |
Oh, they know I love them. |
| 01:29:34 |
I feel very blessed, as I say, |
| 01:29:37 |
I just thank them for being |
| 01:29:41 |
We're very lucky to have them |
| 01:29:43 |
and our true friends. |
| 01:29:44 |
God bless you guys and call me. |
| 01:29:46 |
And as one of Andrew's |
| 01:29:50 |
very soon after he was murdered, |
| 01:29:56 |
Kurt, Matt, Chris, |
| 01:29:58 |
I feel like I got lucky in life |
| 01:30:00 |
'cause they're another set |
| 01:30:02 |
Kate and David were a big reason |
| 01:30:03 |
why I am the person |
| 01:30:06 |
We're all their kids. |
| 01:30:08 |
I'll always be there |
| 01:30:09 |
And I love you both dearly. |
| 01:30:10 |
We all love you guys so much. |
| 01:30:12 |
There's really nothing |
| 01:30:14 |
Do you feel better? |
| 01:30:16 |
Do you feel better? |
| 01:30:19 |
Yeah. |
| 01:30:22 |
Yeah, you make me feel better. |
| 01:30:23 |
I know that no matter what, |
| 01:30:25 |
you're going to find ways |
| 01:30:29 |
because that's the type |
| 01:30:32 |
That's how good you are. |
| 01:30:34 |
I just hope |
| 01:30:36 |
how much he loved them, |
| 01:30:37 |
because just in the short |
| 01:30:39 |
that was the one truth |
| 01:30:42 |
I'm glad I wasn't |
| 01:30:44 |
because it would have been |
| 01:30:46 |
fucking wasted |
| 01:30:48 |
I mean, totally. |
| 01:30:49 |
I had my ear pierced |
| 01:30:53 |
They never noticed. |
| 01:30:55 |
I'm finally sitting |
| 01:30:56 |
and I actually said to them, |
| 01:30:58 |
"You know, Mom, Dad, |
| 01:30:59 |
it's a good thing |
| 01:31:01 |
because hello!" |
| 01:31:03 |
And they just had a look at it, |
| 01:31:05 |
"Oh, that's nice. |
| 01:31:07 |
And I love you, |
| 01:31:12 |
Yeah. I kind of need to move on |
| 01:31:15 |
'Cause I'm a Bagby male. |
| 01:31:16 |
We don't gush very much. |
| 01:33:18 |
Subtitles by LeapinLar |
